tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Apr 5, 2021 13:48:33 GMT -5
Brian Orosco never was the #1 American, much less deserving of "Mr. Ninja Warrior". Finally someone who pointed this out. The guy literally made Stage 3 once in Sasuke 25 and went out almost immediately, then returns next time and gets called Mr. USA, Mr. Ninja Warrior; and my personal favourite, the ‘American Makoto Nagano’. In 26 he just got massively outshined by Campbell, Steffensen, and Kasemir, then didn’t even qualify for 27. The only reason behind this is that they needed someone to fill the role of the ‘ace’ of the American team; Levi couldn’t compete due to injury and everyone else was unproven, so it had to be Brian. I think overall the biggest star of American Ninja Challenge (eg the Sasuke 19-27 era) was David Campbell; went further than any other American had on Sasuke, and could’ve achieved Kanzenseiha in 27 if he’d held on the UCH for a couple more seconds as the Final Stage was an utter joke that tournament.
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Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Apr 5, 2021 13:57:33 GMT -5
Brian Orosco never was the #1 American, much less deserving of "Mr. Ninja Warrior". Finally someone who pointed this out. The guy literally made Stage 3 once in Sasuke 25 and went out almost immediately, then returns next time and gets called Mr. USA, Mr. Ninja Warrior; and my personal favourite, the ‘American Makoto Nagano’. In 26 he just got massively outshined by Campbell, Steffensen, and Kasemir, then didn’t even qualify for 27. The only reason behind this is that they needed someone to fill the role of the ‘ace’ of the American team; Levi couldn’t compete due to injury and everyone else was unproven, so it had to be Brian. I think overall the biggest star of American Ninja Challenge (eg the Sasuke 19-27 era) was David Campbell; went further than any other American had on Sasuke, and could’ve achieved Kanzenseiha in 27 if he’d held on the UCH for a couple more seconds as the Final Stage was an utter joke that tournament. Not to mention Campbell in general is the most accomplished out of every American from this era, having recently crushed the Mega Wall and ofc achieving Kanzenseiha in SASUKE Vietnam 2. Man's a legend
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Apr 5, 2021 14:46:42 GMT -5
Agreed.
I always wonder why he never managed to break out of his decline in ANW. It couldn't have been age as he was 39 when he achieved Kanzenseiha on Sasuke Vietnam (which is hella impressive).
Maybe he's suited to the more technical courses and less so to the hugely dynamic and ever changing courses on ANW? You tell me, I'm not that well educated on international comps.
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Post by subtleagent on Apr 5, 2021 16:02:41 GMT -5
Campbell mentioned his failures were due to lack of preparation. So I think it is more the changes each year that nabbed him. That said he still delivered some pretty powerful qualifying runs and even made the Power Tower in ANW 11 where he very nearly won it. It's his Vegas runs that took a hit. ANW 4 he mentioned he wasn't right mentally and instead of focusing on completing the course he chose to get competitive and it caused him to not have the right mindset. ANW 5 was an easy clear, but he used the wrong shoes on the Warped Wall (which honestly was a Yamada in 9 level fail). Silk Slider in ANW 6 I can forgive since the landing pad was bogus. ANW 7 he messed up an unpredictable new obstacle. ANW 8 he goofed up in the Finals and in ANW 9 he cleared, but Wingnut Alley being the most overkill obstacle in ANW history took him out. ANW 10 saw him fail on the Double Dipper which apparently was unnecessarily modded and it "broke" the obstacle. Then came ANW 11 where he chose to move at a slower pace which ended up costing him. ANW 12 was a fickle one, he seemed unsure of Corkscrew, but again that one literally ate competitor after competitor.
So all in all, I'd say Campbell has just been super unlucky for the most part. He's shown he's still pretty powerful even in his 40s and doesn't seem to struggle stamina-wise (unlike a certain someone I list below).
If anyone hit decline in ANW it was Steffensen who BTW I would ALSO argue was never the "best" American given his clear in Second Stage clear in ANW 4 was an edited pass on a fundamentally broken Stage 2 so they could have a Stage 3 and right off the bat competitors like Arnold, Moravsky, Britten, Dory, Issac and Drew all surpassed him in terms of potential while he continued to decline. Hell watching him in ANW 7 and 9 pretty much cemented that he was out of the running for Kanzenseiha potential. ANW 5 can be argued as two freak accidents, but ANW 6 saw him struggling in only the qualifiers on what looked to be a pretty half-assed effort. Then he gassed out on only the third obstacle when both times over 10 ~ 20 competitors made it further. Then comes ANWs 8 and 10 where he barely qualifies only to fail Stage 1 in unremarkable fashion and ANW 11 where he doesn't even qualify at all. His SASUKE 27 performance saw an inexplicable Metal Spin failure despite passing it last time, while his 32 performance saw him biff the first UCCH jump which Drew would go onto pass. It was clear they only marketed him because of Kacy despite the two never performing well enough to earn the amount of screen time they got.
That said, Orosco hit decline pretty hard after 26. Most can attribute it to upper body always being his weakness (hence why Stratis didn't pick him to be on his team in ANW 3 as he mentioned), but he messed up ANW 2 Boot Camp's Cliffhanger and barely beat it the second time around with the ledges being thicker. That alone was enough to convince me he had zero shot at the Ultimate Cliffhanger while Levi at the very least had shown he could've beaten it had he not rushed the first transition in 23. Yes you can argue Orosco made the third on a (slightly) tougher course, but his attempts were bad and both times he was the worst performer on said stage. And then it gets to the point where he couldn't even pass the Rolling Escargot in ANW 6 (despite it being much easier than SASUKE 26's).
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Post by subtleagent on Apr 18, 2021 12:28:41 GMT -5
Oh, just thought of another good one. The Cliffhanger Dimension was an unnecessary buff and the Ultra Crazy Cliffhanger was already difficult enough that it didn't really need to be changed even before a Kanzenseiha. Not to mention the Dimension (for Morimoto at least, Yoshiyuki and Sato both got robbed) I feel was unintentionally easier because the back and forth ledge looked like it was actually closer for Morimoto than the UCCH's ledge was.
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Post by Miko on Apr 24, 2021 6:37:09 GMT -5
I don't know how unpopular these really really are, but considering I haven't posted on this board for whopping 4 years already, I felt like posting so here it is.
Okuyama Yoshiyuki is by far my favorite competitor of all time. His Sasuke 26 run is my favorite one (such drama much america do japanese suck etc, yeah that one) and overall he was just so damn consistent in first two stages. Even though he didn't win it all, he's still(?) oldest finalist and he is the reason why I suddenly got the itch for Sasuke/Ninja Warrior again after over 4 years of not watching anything!
I like Backstream! I don't know is it still there (haven't seen most recent Sasuke tournaments), but Wall Lifting had became too easy so they made it so much harder by getting everyone wet before it. I just watched Sasuke 29 and 30 and holy s*** people were so exhausted during it. Of course in 29's case, the jets on Backstream were f***ing insanity but because of the obstacle being just right before Wall Lifting, everyone had hard time anyways.
I dislike heavily these ''Ultra-Crazy-Megahard-Insanity-Cliffhanger'' modifications; it's reasonable to make obstacle harder as people train for them, but at some point it would be just better to retire the whole obstacle instead of buffing it to the point that no one can complete it unless you have spent last 1000 hours on it in your backyard. Salmon Ladder is a good exception, it's still hard but not unnecessarily hard.
I think my favorite Stage 1 nowadays is 29-30 version! It used to be the older ones like 11, 15, 17 etc but I really like how simple and beautiful Stage 1 was on 29 and 30 tournaments. It always felt weird to watch Stage 1 after Nagano's victory since it became too much of a marathon for the competitors and the viewers.
Jordan Jovtchev is still my favorite foreign competitor. That Sasuke 8 run was simply amazing and literally only time he didn't hear warning buzzer on 2nd Stage!
And for not-so-unpopular-but-since-i-post-why-not-say-them-anyways:
Since I really like Wall Lifting obstacle, I've been wondering who has the best technique for it. Okuyama had really good one, but obviously it looks f***ing amazing when people lift the 50kg one over their head and in Takeda's and Kanno's case, even holding it with one hand! At the end of the day I came in to this conclusion: Okuyama had the best technique but style points goes to Takeda and Kanno.
Sasuke 24's 3rd Stage was insanity and even more insane is the fact that everyone else cleared it except Takeda and that guy who f***ed up on Grinding Ring. The whole Jumping Bars-Hand Climbing-Spider Flip combo is so hard and people were literally speedrunning it with no struggles at all. I'm still amazed.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Apr 24, 2021 8:42:01 GMT -5
Yeah I don't think the lack of love for the crazy variants of the Cliffhanger is particularly unpopular, especially the Dimension which was just not warranted as the UCCH clear rate was still only 50% in the tournament prior. It's also led to a hell of a lot of anticlimactic Stage 3 runs, because you know in 90% of cases it's going to end at one of the 180 transitions, and it's just become quite boring to watch guys like Sato and Hioki. None of the Cliffhangers prior, even the Ultimate Cliffhanger I'd argue, relied so much on luck and perfect timing so it was a case of if you trained enough for it, you could beat it. Shin-Sasuke imo struck a perfect balance in terms of gradual progression across Stage 3. From Sasuke 18-21 it was appropriately deemed as a significant buff in difficulty over the last iteration, then from 22-24 people started to work out the formerly 'OP' obstacles like the Shin-Cliffhanger and Spider Flip and we started to see much more exciting and pertinent runs across the entire roster of competitors. In recent tournaments, with the exception of Morimoto and maybe Tada, the outcomes are just too predictable due to the overly central role the Cliffhanger has assumed in these newest iterations of the stage.
Also, if we're talking about the Wall Lifting, Bunpei despite looking really unassuming just threw the walls over his head wall after wall. Kongu as well; the guy delivers heavy parcels for a living so it's unsurprising that the Wall Lifting is nothing to him.
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Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Apr 24, 2021 14:52:35 GMT -5
The numbering system they've been using is good because it's based off a mix of skill and who can give higher ratings to the show. This allows skilled competitors to be in the 80s and 90s, as well as Japanese superstars like Darvish or SASUKE legends like Yamada and Nagano to run LATER, making people stay to watch more of Stage 1 and ergo boosting the ratings.
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Post by subtleagent on Apr 24, 2021 19:57:51 GMT -5
Numbers personally are more of a minor issue with me, it's unnecessary focus that I personally don't care for (ex. did we really need 5 minutes of Darvish in 36? I know celebrity and all, but still.) That said, competitors like Kawaguchi and Keitaro getting high numbers despite performing nowhere near well enough to justify their placement can get annoying. Especially with stronger competitors like Yoshiyuki getting lower numbers, or like Tada getting fast-forwarded the way he did in 38 (therefore ruining his result since no one who's gotten a double digest has ever made the final in the same tournament. Then again no one who's achieved Kanzenseiha has ever been digested in the same tourney either).
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Apr 25, 2021 4:43:41 GMT -5
The numbering system is definitely one of the many reasons I love Sasuke (I'm perhaps biased as I am a statistician by trade). I think it works well when you consider it needs to be a hybrid of accommodating the stronger competitors in the higher positions (to both satisfy long-time fans of the show and to pay respects to that competitor's past performance) but also ensuring that the ratings are kept high, the majority of which are driven by first-time watchers and those watching because of the celebrities competing. The latter results in some strong competitors like the Black Tigers and Hioki getting lower numbers to avoid fans getting bored watching numbers #1-80 fail after fail, while some well-known celebrities are assigned higher numbers to keep fans watching throughout the entirety of Stage 1. Darvish in particular got very high numbers because he was seen as the strongest celebrity/most likely to make Stage 3, so giving him #98 in Sasuke 36 would force Darvish fans to watch the entirety of Stages 1, 2, and 3, as he was among the last runners of all of those stages, again boosting the ratings.
I do agree that some assignments are unwarranted, such as Kawaguchi's infamous propensity to get high numbers despite not being a celebrity and arguably not deserving them, or as aforementioned some Stage 3 regulars being given really low numbers. But Hioki knows that he's simply the scapegoat and that him getting lower numbers is no reflection on his perceived track record; the trade-off of his low numbers is that he also gets a lot of screen time so I think he's okay with it. The main issue I'd have getting low numbers is that there's a high likelihood of effectively becoming the guinea pig to test out new obstacles, like Hioki debuting and failing Planet Bridge in 35 and no one else failing it afterwards.
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Post by sackeshi on Apr 27, 2021 12:50:22 GMT -5
Sasuke 29 was the best state 2 in years. The time limit is supposed to be challenging that's half of what made stage 2 so hard in early sasuke. 10 seconds should be the maximum leeway.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Apr 27, 2021 14:22:07 GMT -5
I would agree with that except they basically used the competitors as guinea pigs for testing the Backstream’s strength, resulting in some really unfair results. Like Shingo and Hashimoto who were first to run and we’re both experienced swimmers nearly drowned, then they turned it down, then after Kongu cleared they turned it back up again and caused Yuuji to need a life dinghy to prevent him from drowning. It was that lack of consistency that I think made Stage 2 in 29 so disliked, as well as Morimoto being allowed through despite blatantly ducking under the last wall, which they defo did on purpose as they were worried no one would clear.
I don’t think the time limit was actually that controversial as we still got some close calls and clears, but combined with the above controversies it only served to add to Stage 2 being considered ‘unfairly brutal’ above anything else.
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Post by Ninja Relaxer on Apr 27, 2021 14:50:10 GMT -5
If you don't know about the Backstream adjustment shenanigans, then I agree Sasuke 29's Stage 2 is exciting to watch. I was in that boat for a long time, because I don't speak Japanese and I never read these forums. Now that I know what's up, Sasuke 29 is less exciting and more disappointing. It's like all those times when an obstacle malfunctions and the producers let the results stand anyway. I feel frustrated on the competitors' behalf.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Apr 27, 2021 15:54:54 GMT -5
I definitely feel that 29 had a big part to play in people's unanimous hate of the Backstream. People were already iffy about it going against the iconic 'if you touch the water you're out' rule, but then to see this already somewhat stigmatised obstacle do unfair amounts of damage to a lot of fan favorites was the final nail in the coffin.
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Post by subtleagent on Apr 27, 2021 20:37:08 GMT -5
Lee En-Chi should have been allowed to continue to compete after SASUKE 30. He literally made the Third Stage in his final attempt and while I'm not 100% sure on this one, he seems pretty resilient to aging from what I gathered. Sadly, he fell victim to TBS' foreigner bias.
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Post by sackeshi on Apr 29, 2021 22:23:00 GMT -5
heres another one
They should bring back Sasuke 19s Flying Chute for the renewal one of if not the hardest stage 1 obstacle in history.
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Post by kiminonawasasuke on Apr 30, 2021 6:50:01 GMT -5
heres another one They should bring back Sasuke 19s Flying Chute for the renewal one of if not the hardest stage 1 obstacle in history. First problem, Inui's budget )
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Posts: 1,282
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Post by tns8597 on Apr 30, 2021 8:40:35 GMT -5
Not only Inui’s budget but I’m also certain that the more stringent safety regulations would have something to do with it. I’m not sure you realise how dangerous an obstacle the Flying Chute actually is. That’s why they needed a net just above the water pit, otherwise the impact of a competitor were to fall in could cause serious injury.....
What I did like about it though was how it’s one of the toughest obstacles to build or replicate, so competitors can’t really train for it and thus it’s a pure test of timing and strategy.
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Apr 30, 2021 9:09:07 GMT -5
Yep, that was one of the reasons I love Flying Chute. Also, for lazy people like me, you can sit on it. I don't remember an obstacle that you can beat while sitting on it, LOL.
As for my unpopular opinion: Rolling Hill is dangerous because combined with Quad Steps. Yes, if you look up on results, people could point out when it was a stand-alone obstacle, it got lower Clear Rate than being combined with Quad Steps, but gotta remember that was on its debut tournament and it was placed at first obstacle, it of course mean an easier chance to make its Clear Rate low.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Apr 30, 2021 10:51:46 GMT -5
The Quad Steps + Rolling Hill generally needs to go. The problem is that too many joke competitors can get through it by taking the 'slow and steady' approach, where they cling to each step and slowly hop from one step to another, then really carefully and again slowly go up and down the Rolling Hill. For me this is just a bit of an immersion breaker because competitors who go that slow basically ruin whatever chance they would have of clearing if they use half their time on those first two obstacles, which makes the rest of their run boring to watch because you know they're going to time out either way. 38 I think made this even worse by having the rest of the first half of Stage 1 just be too easy (largely due to the Silk Slider being much easier than the Wing Slider), extrapolating loads of rookie/joke runs by allowing them to reach the Dragon Glider, despite the fact most had no time left and/or were going to fail the DG miserably anyway. That's why the DG did so much damage in 38 in particular, as well as the fact that the obstacle was just broken.
Long story short, we need a first obstacle that actually takes out a large proportion of joke competitors, meaning that considerably less time is wasted on airing runs that have no hope in hell of clearing and are thus a bit monotonous and boring to watch, as they'd end on this buffed up first obstacle. And as I know people tend to huff and puff about who gets digested and who gets shown too much etc., that would also facilitate the stronger competitors getting a larger proportion of screen time.
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