tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Feb 23, 2021 5:00:02 GMT -5
Yeah am I correct in thinking that 28 had Asa, Ryo, Yuuji, Kanno, Hashimoto, Lee En-Chih, Naoki Iketani, and that was basically it (obvs we had the All-Stars but most were declining hence Inui's desire to retire them)? The international challengers were literal nobodies and some former finalists didn't get selected to compete in favour of likely more joke competitors.
Compare this to 27 where we had 10 high-profile American qualifiers, far more Shin-Sedai and Muscle Musical members. Either way the course in 27 wasn't that much easier than 28; it still had the Spin Bridge and Rolling Escargot, while most of 28's other obstacles were cheap rehashes of relatively easy obstacles from older seasons. Yet in 27 we got >5 times the number of clears vs. 28; no doubt due to the field in 28 being probably as thin as ever in recent history.
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Post by subtleagent on Feb 28, 2021 0:45:28 GMT -5
I feel Kongu, Okuyama and maybe Kawaguchi definitely would've cleared had they been allowed to compete. Then there's Shinya, but he's terrible when it comes to leg focused obstacles so I could easily see the Spin Bridge decimating him. I think aside from the weak competitive field, the gap between 27 and 28 left those who participated unprepared. Most of the competitors from the M9 era retired and the ones who didn't thought the show ended and thus probably weren't 100% in the zone. All-Stars and Iketani were all nearing their 40s or past 40 by that point so all of them were already declined past the point of no return. Octopus was there for one last flop in the water. Lee was still pretty good for his age. Hashimoto was just not mentally in it by that point anymore when the show took a more celebritized approach. There was Mika Watanabe, Kinnikun and Wakky, but Mika never really delivered in SASUKE whilst Kinnikun and Wakky are good for at best maybe 1 clear. Then again Wakky would've cleared had he not taken an eternity on the Jump Hang Kai and messed up the Tarzan Rope/Rope Ladder transition. Hell Farid Isham would've cleared had he not injured himself on the Rolling Escargot (likely the reason they removed it).
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Feb 28, 2021 5:27:33 GMT -5
Yeah agreed; also bear in mind the list of Stage 1 clears in 27 included a bunch of randos that just didn't compete in 28, but could've probably cleared given that they made it past the Spin Bridge and Rolling Escargot, which let's be honest were the only 2 genuinely hard obstacles in the stage.
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Post by yusukeisthegoat227 on Mar 3, 2021 21:03:58 GMT -5
-As you can see from my profile pic, Mr. Octopus is unironically one of my favorite competitors of all time. He and other joke competitors like Torisawa are part of what sets Sasuke apart from the American version of the show imo.
-Akiyama's legacy is underrated. People will say he achieved Kanzen on an easier era of the show, and his First Stage failures afterwards are a disappointment. But consider this: He was the only grand Champion from tournaments 5-16, he was battling an eye condition, and still performed great in Sasukes 11 and 12. And a great "what if" scenario is if he clears the Pipe Slider in 12. If he does, there's a good chance he's a double grand champion, and we could be thinking about him completely differently. Funny story about Akiyama, when I was a little kid watching Ninja Warrior on G4, I thought he was literally blind when they brought up his eye condition. Now that would've made his kanzen even more impressive!
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Post by wrestlingfan55 on Mar 4, 2021 5:34:49 GMT -5
Oh no doubt, Mr Octopus' run in 26 was honestly the best part of the show- maybe the most enjoyable run of that era. I don't watch ANW, but I'm almost certain the show doesn't come close to Sasuke from an authenticity standpoint. A lot of times with Sasuke, it feels like you're a spectator, and the emotions feel genuine. It isn't overproduced like most American TV shows.
I completely agree about Akiyama. He was truly ahead of his time- no one else outside of Yamada (and Travis, for that matter...what a monster he was) had a real shot at climbing the tower.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Mar 5, 2021 5:40:26 GMT -5
Akiyama was one of many who I put in the sort of 'victim of stage order' class.
What I mean by this is that Stages 1-4 are structured and marketed as such that the difficulty of each respective stage is greater than the last. This has seldom been the case, with Stage 1 often being more difficult than Stage 2 and sometimes even 3 in a few of the earlier tournaments, even after you remove all of the rookies/joke competitors from the perceived clear rate.
My point is that Stage 1 is often being marketed as the easiest stage, but for many, it really isn't. Regardless, because it's the 'First Stage', even if a competitor would have no issue with Stages 2-4, if they struggle and often fail on Stage 1, they're seen as 'declining' even if their other skills are still 100% there, and they're far more likely to absolutely dominate on later stages than most of the regulars on those later stages. Yet, if someone often reaches Stage 3 yet has zero chance of clearing, they're seen as 'consistent' and credited through being given numbers in the 90s. Yet, many would argue Akiyama's chances of Kanzen were WAY higher than most of these Stage 3 regulars.
It's a shame how the perception of a competitor is almost entirely shaped around their ability to clear Stage 1, purely because a Stage 1 fail is an 'early' fail due to how the stages are ordered, even if they're training day and night and could destroy Stage 3 if given the chance. Imagine if Stage 3 became the new Stage 1; Jun Sato would go from being one of the most 'consistent' competitors to being a 'nobody' as he'd consistently fail on the earliest stage. Not everyone is a parkour god who can easily get through the dynamic, agility-based stages; Akiyama more so than anyone due to his eye condition.
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Post by gokuisgod420 on Mar 8, 2021 7:28:04 GMT -5
I think they should have kept the Sasuke 33 flying bar
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Post by SasukeBanzukeNo1 (Moon12) on Mar 9, 2021 21:27:10 GMT -5
Does it matter when almost half of that longevity comprised of sub-par performances (up to Sasuke 11 and from Sasuke 24 onwards)? P.S. yes you could say the same for Morimoto in an absolute sense, but even during his early tournaments, his performances given that he was literally 15 years old were pretty darn impressive. Yea, lets not forget that in 19, when he was just 15 years old, he beat the Jumping Spider that was absolutely brutal in that tournament (the walls were higher). In his first appearance in 18 (he was still 15), when the JS debuted, the walls were lower; however, he wasn't even close to reaching the walls. That tells you he really did improve a lot in just six months, even though he failed the Half-Pipe Attack--just one obstacle after the JS.
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Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Mar 10, 2021 5:07:08 GMT -5
This one is gonna lead to tns making a whole other thread for this topic because that's just what he does with opinions like these lol. No complaints tho bud, our talks are lots of fun.
The Shin Sedai weren't that good.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Mar 10, 2021 6:15:56 GMT -5
Kane-Not-Kosugi unfortunately not today as I'm in the middle of a work project, otherwise I would for sure lol.
I can't really comment though because I have to ask, who even are the Shin-Sedai? It's always struck me as just a term given to competitors who did well during the Shin-Sasuke era; every time they tried to group them into a set of defined members, it would always go out the window in the following tournament. In 28 they just allocated the term to last four men standing that tournament and the term never really got used afterwards. Sasukepedia further portrays the term as arbitrary, as half of the people they include didn't rise to prominence until well after the Shin-Era, like Hioki; hell, Shunsuke is considered one and he didn't even compete in that era.
If I had to pick a true set of Shin-Sedai members, I'd have to go with Ryo, Hashimoto, Yuuji, and Kanno. All were STQs, were the main show-stoppers of the era, proliferated right after the All-Stars started to decline, and were also fairly young, which I think appropriately brands them as 'Shin-Sedai'. Obvs we also had Okuyama and Kongu, but the former was older than most of the All-Stars and the latter was more of a veteran and had been competing for years.
Assuming the above four competitors are the 'Shin-Sedai', I'd say this; Ryo and Kanno were some of the most promising competitors during their tenure, but both just dropped like a rock and incredibly prematurely at that. Hashimoto was a beast on Stage 3 and could've probably made the Final Stage again if he'd kept competing; I just don't think he competed long enough to make a serious impact on the show. Yuuji is obviously a completely different story; pre-Sasuke 36 I would've classed him alongside Ryo and Kanno as someone who had a really strong but short streak of success, but now that he's come back with what is effectively an unheard of vengeance and in his 40s no less, he's probably the strongest competitor we've seen bar Morimoto.
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Post by darthvaderlim on Mar 12, 2021 1:17:30 GMT -5
I actually liked Sasuke 32, despite the editing. I don't think it's one of the worst tournaments compared to 26 and 28. The only problem I have is Takeda and Shingo bein FFed and Darvish getting a super long fluff piece. Plus You Know Who's save on the Warped Wall and UCCH clear was quite unexpected.
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Post by PizzaKing57 on Mar 12, 2021 3:42:58 GMT -5
What I really liked about 32 is how they finally gave Shunsuke more coverage and full runs shown but probably because he was one of the only eight people to clear Stages 1 and 2, which sadly doesn't happen that much and I felt terrible that he again failed Stage 1 in this tournament as well as being digested for the umpteenth time. I really hope he will clear Stage 1 again but I'm not confident about him anymore. Also on Challenge, they fixed the All-Stars problem by showing Shingo and Takeda's runs in full.
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Mar 12, 2021 5:07:23 GMT -5
This is probably going to get me shot in the face but... I loved the idea of a lottery to decide who got what starting number (other than maybe 99 and 100). It made it more fun to see the tournament as even the single digits could have some strong competitors. That and it's how Shingo got 90 that one time. XD
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Mar 12, 2021 6:22:19 GMT -5
I feel like I'm agreeing with most of these 'unpopular' opinions.
I also didn't think Sasuke 32 was THAT bad. Obviously, there were some issues with editing, like the digesting of All-Stars, fully digesting a couple of guys who made Stage 3 even though we got like 8 clears, and laughably high spotlighting of celebrities. Stage 2 was also really underwhelming, and the weather issues robbed a lot of people from having better runs on both Stages 1 and 3. But I have to say it was pretty exciting to watch live and see the renewal in action; some cool new ideas, some shocking fails on Stage 1 which spruced things up, and DD's unexpected clear on the UCCH. I have to say I always found 33 much worse; the excitement of the new obstacles/renewal was obviously no longer there with minimal changes compared to the last tournament, the results regressed/stagnated compared to 32 which meant that they were incredibly underwhelming, and the Stage 3 modifications were just uncalled for.
R/e the lottery, I'd honestly kinda like to see one for 39, obviously with some structured allocations. I don't think it should be completely randomised just because Morimoto or Darvish getting like #10 wouldn't be particularly good for ratings/viewer interest; maybe give Nagano #98, Yuuji #99, and Yusuke #100 as the two competing champions, and then run a lottery for numbers #1-98. It's a refreshing change for once, and creates excitement throughout the entirety of Stage 1 rather than cramming most of the talent into the #80s-90s. Obvs it wouldn't work for every tournament given that Stage 1 should generally transition from the light-hearted joke competitors to the more serious runs, which segways into Stages 2 and 3 which are even more pertinent, but it's a nice anomaly to have, if you get my point.
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Post by SasukeBanzukeNo1 (Moon12) on Mar 12, 2021 7:28:44 GMT -5
Mine would be that SASUKE 29 isn't as bad of a tournament as people think. It may not be a great one, but there were a few notable highlights to this. We got to see Hioki Masashi and Yamamoto Keitaro clear stage one for the first time, and we had about 21 clears overall (which was one of only several tournaments where there were 20+ clears, and it was the third-most in the rising era behind 34 w/ 24 clears and 30 w/ 27 clears). We also got to see Yusuke break out as a rising star when he was the first to clear the Crazy Cliffhanger, and to come so close to clearing the Pipe Slider in making it to the final stage at 21 years old.
And I don't know if this adds anything special, but we also had a lot of old faces return after years of not competing: Shunsuke and Tomoyuki who last competed in 19, Keitaro who last competed in 20, Kawashima Takayuki (SASUKE 1 Finalist) who last competed in 22, Kobayashi Masaaki who last competed in 16, and Tatayama Masaaki who hasn't competed since 3 (a record 14 years!).
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Post by darthvaderlim on Mar 16, 2021 1:10:49 GMT -5
Mine would be that SASUKE 29 isn't as bad of a tournament as people think. It may not be a great one, but there were a few notable highlights to this. We got to see Hioki Masashi and Yamamoto Keitaro clear stage one for the first time, and we had about 21 clears overall (which was one of only several tournaments where there were 20+ clears, and it was the third-most in the rising era behind 34 w/ 24 clears and 30 w/ 27 clears). We also got to see Yusuke break out as a rising star when he was the first to clear the Crazy Cliffhanger, and to come so close to clearing the Pipe Slider in making it to the final stage at 21 years old. And I don't know if this adds anything special, but we also had a lot of old faces return after years of not competing: Shunsuke and Tomoyuki who last competed in 19, Keitaro who last competed in 20, Kawashima Takayuki (SASUKE 1 Finalist) who last competed in 22, Kobayashi Masaaki who last competed in 16, and Tatayama Masaaki who hasn't competed since 3 (a record 14 years!). Agreed with Sasuke 29, I don't think this was one of the worst tournaments, as it adressed the issue of Sasuke 28, such as bringing back top competitors, like Kongu, Okuyama, and Nagasaki. Other than that, this tournament will forever be remembered as the worst Stage 2 and the only Stage Three with a time limit.
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Post by salt on Mar 30, 2021 4:59:36 GMT -5
My hot take is that SASUKE 34 really isn't that great. It has a memorable stage 2 with a bunch of unique failures, and one really good breakout run, but for the most part things kinda felt... static from 32 and 33, I guess? It kind of felt like an extension of those two tournaments.
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Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Mar 30, 2021 5:11:12 GMT -5
My hot take is that SASUKE 34 really isn't that great. It has a memorable stage 2 with a bunch of unique failures, and one really good breakout run, but for the most part things kinda felt... static from 32 and 33, I guess? It kind of felt like an extension of those two tournaments. That's not as unpopular as you think haha
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Mar 30, 2021 8:19:32 GMT -5
Definitely not an unpopular opinion.
It's actually so not unpopular that even the producers agreed with you leading to the changes on Stage 3 for the following tournament. The reason why 32-34 felt so static is that given the insane difficulty of Stage 3 (exacerbated by the stupidly unwarranted modifications between 32 and 33), whether a competitor failed Stage 1, 2, or 3, and no matter how shocking or unexpected their failure or breakthrough was, there was no tangible impact of their result.
What I mean by 'tangible impact' (a term I tend to use a lot r/e results) is that their failure or slip-up prevented them from a potential Final Stage attempt or Kanzen, which just wasn't the case for any result from 32-34 because you knew no matter how well a competitor did, they were 100% going to fail the UCCH+VLK combo. A good example of 'tangible impact' would've been Nagano failing the s***ty broken ring in 21, or Ryo's fail in 31, because you know otherwise they could've created history, whether it be in the form of a Kanzen or at least leading the natural progression of results.
By comparison, there was no tangible impact of Shunsuke failing Stage 2, and no tangible impact of Kawaguchi or Drew failing the UCCH because they would've failed seconds later. To me it just undermined any potential excitement from Stages 1 and 2 because you knew how the tournament was broadly going to play out regardless of the demographic of fails and clears from each stage. 33 was a particular offender because of the unwarranted modifications compared to 32 and hence underwhelming regression of results, and 34 was as well because Stages 1 and 2 were far too easy compared to Stage 3.
I still maintain that the combo would've ruined Sasuke had it been kept, as ratings and interest would've just dropped and dropped as results would continuously bottleneck at the combo tournament after tournament, for at least another 2-3 competitions. The producers recognized that 32-34's results didn't paint the most promising picture for the future, so they had to add the green resting bar in 35 to facilitate the natural progression of results we're used to and what keeps us hooked on the show.
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Post by subtleagent on Apr 5, 2021 12:09:00 GMT -5
Brian Orosco never was the #1 American, much less deserving of "Mr. Ninja Warrior".
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