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Post by PsychoDelusion on Jan 12, 2021 9:26:21 GMT -5
Keitaro can't clear Stage 2 Why the flip are you saying that for?! He has to clear the 2nd Stage, it's so important as he's STILL the only Morimoto Generation member to never make it that far and that the 3rd Stage plays to his advantage. Well, has he so far? Speaking on results alone. When he does, we'll be here to discuss how he did.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jan 12, 2021 9:38:44 GMT -5
Technically that's not true given that Shogo Ugajin is theoretically a part of the Morimoto Sedai and he's not made Stage 3, though given that he never trains with them and hasn't competed in the last two tournaments I'm tempted to say he doesn't count as a proper member.
And from a statistical point of view it's completely legitimate to state that Keitaro can't pass Stage 2 given that he has failed to do so in 5/5 of his attempts, and has the worst Stage 2 failure rate when you consider both absolute and relative measures: those who have failed Stage 2 more than 5 times (think it's only Katsumi Yamada and Takeda) have passed it several times (e.g. Takeda failed Stage 2 in 6 tournaments but also passed it 13 times so...), and there's no one else who's failed the stage that many times without at least one Third Stage attempt (think the next worst is Yuji Washimi who's failed it 3 for 3).
So statistically speaking, if there's anyone who can't pass Stage 2, it's Keitaro.
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Post by PizzaKing57 on Jan 12, 2021 10:02:35 GMT -5
So statistically speaking, if there's anyone who can't pass Stage 2, it's Keitaro. No
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jan 12, 2021 10:11:32 GMT -5
Well yes.
Whether he has the capability to or not, due to his record-breaking failure rate on Stage 2, I don't blame anyone for saying he can't pass Stage 2, because he's fared worse than every other competitor on the stage.
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Post by PizzaKing57 on Jan 12, 2021 15:09:32 GMT -5
Well yes. Whether he has the capability to or not, due to his record-breaking failure rate on Stage 2, I don't blame anyone for saying he can't pass Stage 2, because he's fared worse than every other competitor on the stage. No, he's got to clear the 2nd Stage, why's it gotta be THAT MUCH difficult for him.
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Paragus
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Post by Paragus on Jan 12, 2021 15:38:43 GMT -5
Well yes. Whether he has the capability to or not, due to his record-breaking failure rate on Stage 2, I don't blame anyone for saying he can't pass Stage 2, because he's fared worse than every other competitor on the stage. No, he's got to clear the 2nd Stage, why's it gotta be THAT MUCH difficult for him. You really gotta stop being so hung-up over him. It's only gonna make you feel worse if he doesn't clear again.
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Post by PizzaKing57 on Jan 12, 2021 15:43:07 GMT -5
No, he's got to clear the 2nd Stage, why's it gotta be THAT MUCH difficult for him. You really gotta stop being so hung-up over him. It's only gonna make you feel worse if he doesn't clear again. I'm not obsessing over him, I just feel he's left behind because of still not reaching a certain level which he would've probably been good at, that so many other challengers including Araki have even been before.
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Post by Ninja Relaxer on Jan 12, 2021 16:18:44 GMT -5
Well yes. Whether he has the capability to or not, due to his record-breaking failure rate on Stage 2, I don't blame anyone for saying he can't pass Stage 2, because he's fared worse than every other competitor on the stage. No, he's got to clear the 2nd Stage, why's it gotta be THAT MUCH difficult for him. Do you have any hobbies outside of Sasuke? Video games, TV, music? Maybe they'll help distract you from Sasuke and make you feel better. As for unpopular opinions... Here's mine: all the Sasukes have been pretty much equal in quality to me. I know some people adore some tournaments and rail against others, but to me... they're all pretty good. The difference between the "worst" and the "best" competitions is not that big. I enjoy them all.
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Post by PizzaKing57 on Jan 12, 2021 16:31:58 GMT -5
I was actually planning for this to be the last day of me watching this tournament which is going ahead and then after tomorrow, I will try really hard to stop thinking about this program so much and go back to doing my usual hobbies which I should've done this week.
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Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Jan 12, 2021 17:58:33 GMT -5
Keitaro can't clear Stage 2 Why the flip are you saying that for?! He has to clear the 2nd Stage, it's so important as he's STILL the only Morimoto Generation member to never make it that far and that the 3rd Stage plays to his advantage. He hasn't cleared Stage 2 because he can't LOL. It's his own fault, regardless of what is expected of him.
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Post by PizzaKing57 on Jan 12, 2021 18:05:05 GMT -5
He hasn't cleared Stage 2 because he can't LOL. It's his own fault, regardless of what is expected of him. Just saying that he can't clear the 2nd Stage is not a valid reason.
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Post by PsychoDelusion on Jan 12, 2021 18:13:20 GMT -5
While we're at it here's another hot take. Apart from the All-Stars, I dislike every other grouping of competitors. Shin Sedai, Morimoto Sedai, it just feels wrong. Everything started ever since the introduction of the Shin Sedai where the production started turning away from the 100 people vs the course spirit to which group is gonna do better, promoting inside competition which to me was and is contrary to the SASUKE spirit. Even the production itself realized this mistake and after SASUKE 28 or 29 they stopped promoting this fake and pointless competition. The All-Stars at this point are part of SASUKE history since the very beginning for some of them so we can't really stop referring to them as such. They made the show back in the day. The other forcefully made group just haven't had the charisma or the legacy the 1st group did. I kinda roll my eyes each time I see the words "Morimoto Sedai" typed. I want to see this trend fade from SASUKE cause it's very un-SASUKE in my mind. Not to mention that the All-Stars at least were and are great friends in and outside the course. The Shin Sedai etc on the other side? Not as much.
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Post by Ninja Relaxer on Jan 12, 2021 18:24:42 GMT -5
I like that the producers promote certain competitors and group the strongest competitors together, but I don't care for manufactured rivalry, and I think any promotion can go too far.
However, I tend not to think of the different Sedai as unique groups so much as a rotating cast of the "current strongest competitors." The different labels -- All Stars, Shin Sedai, Morimoto Sedai -- are just a useful and respectful way to update the list of current "All Stars" without forcing people out after they reach a certain age.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jan 13, 2021 5:35:16 GMT -5
The whole 'old vs new generation' or 'USA vs Japan' (SASUKE 26) dynamic they tried to propagate was just dumb and clearly not reflective of the actual competitor's mindsets.
Sasuke has always been about 100 competitors each individually taking on the course; any number of people can clear Stages 1, 2, 3, and even Kanzen. The show has never been set up for competition, and neither are the competitors. You always see them on the sidelines egging each other on to do better or clear an obstacle, young competitors to old, old to young, foreign to domestic, and so on. I sort of get what they were trying to do in SASUKE 26 given that there was a genuine risk of no domestic competitor clearing Stage 2, but they botched the approach by pushing forward the aforementioned Americans vs Japanese rivalry that didn't exist. The only competitor who’s ever competed with others has been Yamada and that’s because his obsession with Total Victory just led to pure jealousy whenever his comrades did well.
Another unpopular opinion from me: I don't find digests of high profile competitors annoying because I wanted to see their runs. Most of their runs, particularly clears, are just pretty generic and unexciting to watch and more of the same. I find it more annoying because I think it's quite disrespectful to the competitor themselves to be sort of sidelined just to make room for more annoying celebrities who at this point just make up far too high a proportion of the field, given how much some of these guys have given to the show. Take Takeda and Shingo as an example in 32; all we really needed to see was their fail as that's the overarching result that the run will come to anyway, but to know that these legends were digested just so that ABC-Z and Darvish could get their chunk of the broadcast was honestly shameful.
Also, edits and digests of strong competitors need to be less reflective of their final result; what I mean by this is that if a competitor gets digested in both Stages 1 and 2, it's pretty obvious they're going to fail Stage 3. Tada's SASUKE 38 edit made it pretty obvious he wasn't going to make the Final Stage, otherwise he would've had at least Stage 1 or 2 shown in full. In contrast, in a tournament with loads of clears, you know the competitor that gets a lot of spotlight is going to do well; it sort of spoils the result, if the Navi hasn't spoiled it already that is.... It's been better than it was recently, with tournaments 28-33 being the worst offenders of this.
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Post by wrestlingfan55 on Feb 16, 2021 17:12:38 GMT -5
Yuuji's run in Sasuke 37, where he got to the Pipe Slider, was [arguably] more impressive than either of his 2 victories.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Feb 16, 2021 17:34:14 GMT -5
^Agreed on this. I think it was the higher relative difficulty of the course, the fact that this run showed that his run in 36 wasn't just a fluke and consolidated that he was back on form (which is so so rare after that steep a decline), and also how he nearly made the Final Stage at 41 years old no less.
His Kanzenseihas were obviously massively impressive but the progression of results up until 24 was sort of opening the door for a Kanzen anyway (no changes to Stage 3 despite 2 clears the tournament beforehand, for example) and he was very nearly not the lone champion (i.e. Kongu), and 27 was nerfed horrifically (not saying he wouldn't have done it otherwise, but he did fail the Floating Boards in ANW vs the World which were part of the initial renewal).
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Post by subtleagent on Feb 22, 2021 15:31:44 GMT -5
SASUKE 29 and 30's First Stages were too easy and disinteresting, Long Jump was bleak (and it injured Nagano, but that's neither here nor there) and Hedgehog wasn't that impressive. Not just in terms of time limit, but in terms of relative difficulty. SASUKE 27's First Stage was difficult and interesting to watch, it just had too high of a time limit.
I don't think anyone should be forced to retire unless they behave poorly (Yamada, Drew).
Not SASUKE, but Rie Komiya's Kanzenseiha in KUNOICHI 8 was possibly the worst Kanzenseiha aside from Drew in ANW 11 (not because of you-know-what, because of the safety pass). Kadoi's was at least impressive due to her speed, but Rie's felt more like a free pass.
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Post by Ninja Relaxer on Feb 22, 2021 15:45:10 GMT -5
Yeah, KUNOICHI 8 was a joke. The Final Stage was too easy. There actually would have been THREE kanzenseihas if one of the contestants hadn't been disqualified.
Unfortunately, Kunoichi's history is so blighted at this point that I don't think it can ever recover. There have been too many course redesigns and too many questionable kanzenseihas. Winning doesn't have the same prestige that it does in Sasuke.
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Post by tns8597 on Feb 22, 2021 15:51:01 GMT -5
subtleagent agreed on all of these.
I never understood the transition from Sasuke 28 to 29's First Stage. 28 had the Spin Bridge and Rolling Escargot which were way harder than the Log Grip and Hedgehog, and it's not like 28's results were so poor that the stage needed to be made easier; we got 5 clears which isn't THAT low especially considering it was a renewal tournament, and this would've been much higher if Inui hadn't filled the majority of the field with nobodies while not selecting competitors who would've cleared like Okuyama and Kongu.
To be honest, I think they realised that Stage 2 in 28 was a bit of a flop as the high time limit made the stage feel so slow and boring to watch, yet we were getting competitors clearing with close to 30 seconds remaining. So they wanted to compensate for this by making Stage 2 for 29 and 30 much harder, firstly by obvs reducing the time limit and making the Backstream harder (both of which went way too far in 29 as we know), and secondly by making Stage 1 easier. An easier Stage 1 facilitated clears from rookie/novice competitors who just had no chance on Stage 2, which contributes to a much lower Stage 2 clear rate and thus increasing the perception that Stage 2 was 'hard'.
Take Sasuke 30 for example; we got 27 clears but these included loads of mediocre competitors like Kinnikun and Wakky who went out almost immediately on Stage 2. A harder Stage 1 would've filtered a lot of these guys out, but those that did clear would've been much more skilled and thus would've had a much higher chance of clearing Stage 2 as well, and Inui certainly didn't want his newly refreshed Stage 2 to be seen as anything close to easy/underwhelming.
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Post by subtleagent on Feb 22, 2021 18:33:23 GMT -5
I think they were desperate for ratings to increase and they thought more clears would have alleviated this. And yeah the competitive field in 28 was weak.
If the time limit in 28 was the same as say 30, then Yuuji would've timed out.
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