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Post by hydra48 on Oct 30, 2020 23:09:41 GMT -5
I'm a big fan of this format too, it seems like there are a lot of people who absolutely hate it though which is weird. If NBC decides to go back to the 4 Stage format, I really hope they do something that actually raises the stakes of qualifiers and city finals. The semifinals and finals this year really made it feel like anyone could go home at any given moment which is part of why I like it so much. It seems like with qualifiers and city finals, you rarely have any shocking moments compared to this season. There's a lot of purists here who are heavy on nostalgia for SASUKE and have been struggling to accept newer changes (Mega Wall, LMS prize, Power Tower). Idk if that's where some of the hate is coming from, but I agree. It's a much more competitive season imo which is why I want to see as far as intensity goes. The only thing I actually hated from ANW were Safety Passes and unnecessary buffs. Yeah I completely agree, the hate towards this season that I'm referring to is from people I see across any social media. (Reddit, Instagram, etc.)
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Oct 31, 2020 8:27:14 GMT -5
IMO... the old format blows this one out of the water in every conceivable way.
Simply put... Season 12 was a last minute, cobbled together "tournament" and it shows. It fundamentally feels lesser than Vegas.
Four Stages IS Ninja Warrior, as is ninja vs course. If every season was made to have a head to head ending, it would kill the show and everything training to "crush the course" stands for. Simply put, it isn't Ninja Warrior.
"Oh, you trained enough to beat every obstacle and become a true great? Well too bad, because this other dude did it 0.1 seconds faster!"
Season 12 takes the focus from being the best on the course, to simply being the fastest on one obstacle.
That's without getting into the fact that four stages is simply bigger, more impressive, more varied and a larger overall challenge than just "another city final".
This is coming from someone that likes ANW, and thought the Mega Wall + Power Tower were great additions.
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Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Oct 31, 2020 17:17:59 GMT -5
I completely agree with all your points. I prefer a 4 stage format to this by a mile.
But America doesn't know how to do a 4 Stage format properly. Since ANW8 they've lost my trust. They made ANW8-10 too hard, and when that failed they gave Safety Passes and nerfed courses for Season 11. They adjust based off backlash and ratings instead of searching for a balanced course.
THIS season is different. They can't do that this season with the course layouts and formats, and I honestly think ANW specifically is doing better with this format than they've done in a long time with their show.
Japan, Vietnam, the UK, and all other spinoffs should keep the 4 stage format. They know how to balance their Stages 1 and 2 (Stage 3 varies by country) according to the skills of their competitors. ANW needs this to show they can make courses that are just right.
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Nov 2, 2020 4:50:13 GMT -5
I completely agree with all your points. I prefer a 4 stage format to this by a mile. But America doesn't know how to do a 4 Stage format properly. Since ANW8 they've lost my trust. They made ANW8-10 too hard, and when that failed they gave Safety Passes and nerfed courses for Season 11. They adjust based off backlash and ratings instead of searching for a balanced course. THIS season is different. They can't do that this season with the course layouts and formats, and I honestly think ANW specifically is doing better with this format than they've done in a long time with their show. Japan, Vietnam, the UK, and all other spinoffs should keep the 4 stage format. They know how to balance their Stages 1 and 2 (Stage 3 varies by country) according to the skills of their competitors. ANW needs this to show they can make courses that are just right. I would rather take a botched four stage course (that still delivers tension and exciting runs), over something that fundamentally isn't Ninja Warrior. ANW 8 and 9 were... pretty ok difficulty wise, the issue was just Stage 2. A few issues in execution doesn't mean the format has to be completely reworked.
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tyler
Satō Hiromichi
Posts: 246
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Post by tyler on Nov 3, 2020 12:05:45 GMT -5
The thing I don't care for with how this season is vs the 4 stages is that the 4 stages are unforgiving. It is hypothetically possible though unlikely that this seasons winner has failed to complete a single round until the power tower races. I don't like that.
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Post by hydra48 on Nov 3, 2020 13:47:44 GMT -5
The thing I don't care for with how this season is vs the 4 stages is that the 4 stages are unforgiving. It is hypothetically possible though unlikely that this seasons winner has failed to complete a single round until the power tower races. I don't like that. Thankfully only 2 people remaining in the finals who fit under that category are Flip Rodriguez and Jeshuah Lewis. Flip is currently 7th and is unlikely to make top 8, Jeshuah's run hasn't been shown yet.
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Nov 3, 2020 17:06:21 GMT -5
The thing I don't care for with how this season is vs the 4 stages is that the 4 stages are unforgiving. It is hypothetically possible though unlikely that this seasons winner has failed to complete a single round until the power tower races. I don't like that. Thankfully only 2 people remaining in the finals who fit under that category are Flip Rodriguez and Jeshuah Lewis. Flip is currently 7th and is unlikely to make top 8, Jeshuah's run hasn't been shown yet. It's a damn shame that Flip has never had that one, defining run. He's looked so strong so many times, and come so close to greatness... but he's just never fully pushed through and become one of the true greats. Looking at his near Stage 2 clears in 7, 9 and 11, plus his DQ in 8... it feels like he's consistently been a victim of bad luck and mental mistakes. An ANW All-Star for sure, but never approaching the leader of the pack.
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tyler
Satō Hiromichi
Posts: 246
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Post by tyler on Nov 5, 2020 8:01:33 GMT -5
The thing I don't care for with how this season is vs the 4 stages is that the 4 stages are unforgiving. It is hypothetically possible though unlikely that this seasons winner has failed to complete a single round until the power tower races. I don't like that. Thankfully only 2 people remaining in the finals who fit under that category are Flip Rodriguez and Jeshuah Lewis. Flip is currently 7th and is unlikely to make top 8, Jeshuah's run hasn't been shown yet. That's true for this season. I understand they needed a limited season so I totally prefer this over nothing. I just don't want this format to become the new one. Although there are parts I liked about it. But that hypothetical concerns me for the future.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Nov 5, 2020 11:18:22 GMT -5
Ratings where an absolute disaster so if anything I'd be surprised if NBC replicated the format. No one watched it.
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Nov 5, 2020 16:19:16 GMT -5
Ratings where an absolute disaster so if anything I'd be surprised if NBC replicated the format. No one watched it. I mean, ANW has been declining in ratings for years. If NBC doesn't feel like shelling out even more money on going back to Vegas, this could conceivably be the end. Sure ANW makes money. But plenty of shows get canned because they don't make enough money.
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Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Nov 5, 2020 20:24:30 GMT -5
Ratings where an absolute disaster so if anything I'd be surprised if NBC replicated the format. No one watched it. I mean, ANW has been declining in ratings for years. If NBC doesn't feel like shelling out even more money on going back to Vegas, this could conceivably be the end. Sure ANW makes money. But plenty of shows get canned because they don't make enough money. ANW is on the cheaper side of things NBC produces, so while they definitely aren't making as much as they used to, they still are profiting...slightly. Either way, over 5 years the show lost almost 4 million viewers. It's only gonna go on for so long.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Nov 6, 2020 4:07:02 GMT -5
Ratings where an absolute disaster so if anything I'd be surprised if NBC replicated the format. No one watched it. I mean, ANW has been declining in ratings for years. If NBC doesn't feel like shelling out even more money on going back to Vegas, this could conceivably be the end. Sure ANW makes money. But plenty of shows get canned because they don't make enough money. You clearly didn't see the ratings this year. This wasn't a decline. This was a massacre.
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Nov 6, 2020 6:23:38 GMT -5
I mean, ANW has been declining in ratings for years. If NBC doesn't feel like shelling out even more money on going back to Vegas, this could conceivably be the end. Sure ANW makes money. But plenty of shows get canned because they don't make enough money. You clearly didn't see the ratings this year. This wasn't a decline. This was a massacre. That's my point. Even with a cheaper season overall, ANW's decline only accelerated (likely exacerbated by the pandemic, timeslot changes and election). It's gonna be a hard sell to say: "look, I know the show looks like a sinking ship, but to save it, we need to move BACK to this even more risky, expensive format". Something fundamentally needs to change or it's curtains for the show in the next few years (maybe a deal with on-demand streaming services?)
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tyler
Satō Hiromichi
Posts: 246
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Post by tyler on Nov 6, 2020 9:07:40 GMT -5
You clearly didn't see the ratings this year. This wasn't a decline. This was a massacre. That's my point. Even with a cheaper season overall, ANW's decline only accelerated (likely exacerbated by the pandemic, timeslot changes and election). It's gonna be a hard sell to say: "look, I know the show looks like a sinking ship, but to save it, we need to move BACK to this even more risky, expensive format". Something fundamentally needs to change or it's curtains for the show in the next few years (maybe a deal with on-demand streaming services?) It's hard to say. There's the demographic who watches it for the stories. And the demographic who watches it for the ninja. They need a balance of it but the emphasis on the stories are making the core fans turn away. Part of me feels also that it works better as a summer show. It's a family show and kids can stay up later to watch it. Once they switched to a 9-11 school night showing, I haven't watched any of them live. It's just too late Also, I'd hate to say it but this season did start pretty much just after the former champion was arrested for being a child predator. And judging by Facebook, the Ninjas for Black lives was not really embraced by a chunk of viewers. Many said they would stop watching because of it. The ironic part about this is, this is pretty much at a time where "ninja" is almost a household name. Yeah, most people don't truly understand the show but it seems most people have an idea of what it is now.
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Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Nov 6, 2020 14:10:36 GMT -5
I think another thing to take note of is that despite the declining ratings, ANW is still in the top 3 most watched shows for its timeslot, and very frequently it's top 2. NBC won't cut something that's higher up in the rankings, imo, because the viewership may be down but proportionately speaking it's high enough.
I honestly think a lot of it is due to lack of interest for casuals but also because TV streaming is wildly more popular nowadays. I don't think people are necessarily giving up on the show, but they're just watching other stuff or watching where their views don't count towards ratings. For example, I watch ANW on Hulu. Doesn't add anything towards ratings, but that's not to say I'm not an ANW fan.
Another thing to note is that it's a busy and stressful time of year. With ANW not in their typical summer timeslot I imagine a lot of people had better things to do than watch ANW, and the kids who are into the show may be busier with school and whatnot so I wouldn't be surprised if they just aren't able to watch until a day or 2 later.
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Post by Messup434 on Nov 6, 2020 20:13:53 GMT -5
I see no reason they won't eventually go back to the old format..? I'd prefer next year, but if they're not able to, they could at least do something slightly bigger and then season 14 should definitely be alright (if things are still bad then I'm giving up on everything lol).
Even before I knew about the rating decline, I assumed it only made sense that they'd go back to the old format. This one doesn't feel the same and obviously they know Midoriyama is much of the appeal for some fans. So I think they'll go back to normal ASAP. Of course, you could also the decline will stop them going back at all, but I'm sure they think going back to the old setup will bring them back up (and I agree!).
That being said, they keep calling it the FIRST Power Tower battle... ugh.
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Post by Messup434 on Nov 6, 2020 20:45:10 GMT -5
PS: They showed a glimpse of the cut Twist and Fly challenge in Raj's profile!
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Post by StepSliderSylv on Nov 6, 2020 21:59:26 GMT -5
Austin Gray was so bloody close
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Post by Ninja Warrior Ryan on Nov 6, 2020 23:25:04 GMT -5
Well, interesting to see that Drew did not make top 8 based on how it all looked tonight
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Nov 7, 2020 8:08:54 GMT -5
I think another thing to take note of is that despite the declining ratings, ANW is still in the top 3 most watched shows for its timeslot, and very frequently it's top 2. NBC won't cut something that's higher up in the rankings, imo, because the viewership may be down but proportionately speaking it's high enough. I honestly think a lot of it is due to lack of interest for casuals but also because TV streaming is wildly more popular nowadays. I don't think people are necessarily giving up on the show, but they're just watching other stuff or watching where their views don't count towards ratings. For example, I watch ANW on Hulu. Doesn't add anything towards ratings, but that's not to say I'm not an ANW fan. Another thing to note is that it's a busy and stressful time of year. With ANW not in their typical summer timeslot I imagine a lot of people had better things to do than watch ANW, and the kids who are into the show may be busier with school and whatnot so I wouldn't be surprised if they just aren't able to watch until a day or 2 later. There are only 3 major networks so saying top 3 is saying last place in Network.. Compare the numbers to what they lost against and it's obvious how bad it was. You also nailed it - It doesn't survive in Prime season. This is a typical summer show. Regardless of format change this is not the demographic for it. Sure the pandemic changed things but it changed with ANW specifically. Everyone was watching other things as TV viewership was marked UP this year with people stuck at home doing nothing. Ratings for other shows double or tripled over ANW. That's catastrophic. All of that said everyone hopes (regardless of which shows you support) that next year we don't have to deal with the pandemic. I'm a realist so I see the restrictions and whatnot going on for much longer AND next year we are supposed to get the Olympics during the summer. So next year's schedule is going to suck as well. I'd suspect regardless if people hated this format (and it's demonstrable in ratings and demographic shift) they may be forced to come up with another shortened season to cope with the Olympics (and the US trials before that).
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