tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 25, 2020 13:47:26 GMT -5
So we know Kanno's failed the First Stage for the last 4 times and hasn't cleared since SASUKE 31, despite beforehand being one of the most likely competitors to achieve Kanzen, bar Morimoto and Ryo at the time. I'm just wondering what you guys think; will he bounce back? A lot of people thought Ryo was done for, and then he surprised us in SASUKE 36, but personally I'm not sure about Kanno. He's 35 now and I feel like he's lost a lot of his strength and stamina from his numerous injuries, and his run in SASUKE 37 just seemed quite nervous, almost failing the first obstacle etc. He's still clearly passionate about the show as shown by his post-run interview, but I'm personally going with no for the aforementioned reason.
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Post by ArbuthnotBlob on Jun 25, 2020 15:21:02 GMT -5
Depends how you want to define 'bounce back'.
Do I think he'll make final stage again? No. Do I think he'll put in good runs up to around the cliffhanger? Hopefully!
I voted yes because I do think Kanno still has potential, but based on his previous performances I don't believe he's going all the way back to the final either.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 25, 2020 15:50:43 GMT -5
Depends how you want to define 'bounce back'. Do I think he'll make final stage again? No. Do I think he'll put in good runs up to around the cliffhanger? Hopefully! I voted yes because I do think Kanno still has potential, but based on his previous performances I don't believe he's going all the way back to the final either. Good point. To be honest, I just meant make it back to the Third Stage again. 35 isn't old, we've seen a lot of competitors reach their prime at that sort of age, but ever since SASUKE 32 he's been plagued with that returning shoulder injury and he doesn't really seem to have the same potential as he did before. If you look at my previous post on the modern day equivalent of the All-Stars I compared him to Katsumi Yamada, not just because they're similar in stature, but because similar to Yamada, Kanno seems to have this obsessive lust for SASUKE that I feel really gets the better of him. From his fluff piece and the get go of his SASUKE 37 run, it seemed that he almost expected to fail the First Stage because of his past 3 consecutive failures. He really didn't seem confident at all like he was before; whether it was because he was being careful about his shoulder or not, I'm not sure.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jun 25, 2020 15:59:36 GMT -5
Age isn't the problem, it's how good his shoulder is. If Yuuji could pull himself together at 40 then Kanno can at 35, but it's all gonna come down to that shoulder, and not even so much his achilles.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 25, 2020 16:22:18 GMT -5
True, though different competitors peak at different times eg Naoki Iketani and Shingo peaked at like 25, Nagasaki peaked at 19-20 etc.
I think it was when Kanno started to miss tournaments due to various injuries that he went downhill. He just wouldn’t have had enough time to train and would’ve lost a lot of his strength. He also looks a lot chunkier than he was before.
I’d really love to see him in the Third Stage again, I just think it’s been too long and his body is too worn out hence why I voted no.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jun 25, 2020 16:59:57 GMT -5
Yeah, I think it really comes down to how badly people want it. I believe if somebody puts their mind toward something then they can succeed tremendously (like Yuuji or Okuyama at around 40 years of age), but what I often have found is that when people peak early they often are far less motivated to try to match their glory days in their "later" age, whether that age be as early as Shunsuke's or as late as Nagano's toward the end of his career (and I'm not saying either of them peaked and purposely stopped trying later, but they clearly are not recognized as fondly as they were in the beginning of their reputations). Like you said 35 isn't old at all, even athletically for Sasuke, but at that age often people's focus is maybe shifted toward raising a family or on one's career. You have to admit it's not the best time investment toward one's mid to late thirties to aim at something like *maybe* beating a seriously difficult obstacle course instead of investing elsewhere. When you're in your twenties like Jun or Morimoto I think there's far less pressure from outside the course and usually what we see is our champions are in their early thirties by the time they succeed in winning, and then they don't win again after this age frame. People also are more inclined to have something to prove at that younger age too. There are exceptions to this theory of mine, but really the only one I can think of is Yuuji. Anyone else at or above Kanno's age who were very good and had actual shots at going very far were already without polished track records to begin with (like Okuyama).
So yeah, I think Kanno has the ability to make it to S3 again, just like many others his age accomplished later in their careers, but I doubt he'll ever reach the final again or even make it past the VL. I think he *could*, but that requires more work than I'd expect him or anyone in his shoes to put in. What do I know though, these guys are the true Sasuke maniacs and perhaps really eat and sleep training for this show on the side of their busy lives. I don't actually know how much training it takes to have a feasible shot at beating the latter half if S3 and the final.
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tns8597
Jordan Jovtchev
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 25, 2020 17:24:20 GMT -5
All of what you're saying is very true; but also bear in mind that Kanno had his first child during his prime, I think when he was 27-28 and consistently making it to the Third Stage. I think in most cases downward spirals are due to, as you said, either other priorities coming first, but Kanno does seem still pretty h*ll bent on SASUKE; I think he said something similar to Yamada's iconic line in his post-SASUKE 37 run interview as well, implying that he still is very much invested, unlike say Iketani who clearly doesn't care as he barely competes anymore.
At most, I think Kanno may have 1 more Stage 3 run in him IF his shoulder doesn't play up for the foreseeable future, but personally I doubt it. I never see him train for SASUKE anymore either, he mostly just lifts weights which doesn't really play to his advantage in Stage 1 as you gotta be light on your feet.
As for your last comment, the time where someone could reach the Final Stage without training whatsoever for SASUKE is long long gone. Rene reached the final in his first SASUKE attempt but he had really trained on the specific Stage 3 obstacles, and Jordan Jovtchev managed it in a much easier era and he was also an Olympic gymnast. The newer obstacles are so technical and require specific movements that there's defo no way anyone could reach the Final without obsessive training; hence why we even see professional athletes doing badly.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 25, 2020 17:32:56 GMT -5
Also remember that Kanno still works as a janitor for the purpose of having more time to train for SASUKE (whether he's able to these days or not), so that's pretty damn committed especially when you have a family of 2 kids
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Post by PizzaKing57 on Jun 25, 2020 18:25:39 GMT -5
I voted yes since I believe that when Ryo thankfully bounced back far into Stage 3 after four years of being plagued with terrible Stage 1 failures, I think Kanno still has plenty of chances to make it too, since he's 35 and the oldest person who cleared the 1st Stage was 44.
But in 37, I found Kanno's failure to be one of the most depressing as I was so hoping for him to clear Stage 1 but instead, he pulled a Takeda and failed for the 4th time in a row and that was truly upsetting for me. In fact, he was just as upset as I was when being interviewed, but at least the good thing was that no emotional music played in the background, like some of the times when Yamada consectively failed the 1st Stage.
Another good thing was that at least, he didn't become injured again or threaten a retirement and although I really like to watch his bench press videos on Instagram with the heaviest weight that he can lift being 135kg, he shouldn't overdo his bodybuilding too much or else he could suffer with a longer injury, like Shiratori who stopped competing prior to tournament 21.
In the next tournament (whenever it happens), I really hope he comes back with a slightly high number and gets his revenge on the 1st Stage since this guy like the others, is fun to watch. If he doesn't train hard for the 3rd Stage, I'm gonna predict he fails the Flying Bar since he's never attempted it before and I've also not seen any training videos from him either.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 25, 2020 18:46:33 GMT -5
I haven't seen Kanno train for Sasuke in a long time that's my main worry, and also his shoulder injury is totally unpredictable hence why he missed Sasuke 34 and 36.
Yeah I was slightly worried that he'd get injured again, given that he's gotten an injury of some kind from 3 tournaments (27, 32, 33); like a lot of former gymnasts it takes your toll on your body in later life so I'm kind of not surprised.
He also seems to be bulking as well as he looks a lot bigger than he was before; while this means he's probably stronger at lifting weights, it plays to his disadvantage in Sasuke as a lot of technical and pound-for-pound strength is required, rather than just brute force, in the majority of cases.
Also, I was thinking about how Ryo did bounce back in Sasuke 36, but he's also a lot younger than Kanno, hasn't had a history of debilitating injuries, most of his errors appeared to be mental rather than physical, and definitely didn't seem as shaken by his past defeats as Kanno was. Ryo just didn't seem to care much anymore, whereas Kanno as I mentioned has a Yamada-esque passion for the show, which we all know was the downfall of Yamada's career.
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Jun 26, 2020 3:15:09 GMT -5
Like you said 35 isn't old at all, even athletically for Sasuke, but at that age often people's focus is maybe shifted toward raising a family or on one's career. You have to admit it's not the best time investment toward one's mid to late thirties to aim at something like *maybe* beating a seriously difficult obstacle course instead of investing elsewhere. Yamada said hello.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 26, 2020 5:19:24 GMT -5
Yeah I was about to pull the whole 'Yamada: Am I a joke to you?' thing.
Another similarity between the two: both gave up their careers to train for Sasuke .... I suppose that's why it's so heartbreaking to see them fail, as opposed to other competitors that haven't sacrificed as much.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jun 26, 2020 9:22:14 GMT -5
Yeah I was about to pull the whole 'Yamada: Am I a joke to you?' thing. Another similarity between the two: both gave up their careers to train for Sasuke .... I suppose that's why it's so heartbreaking to see them fail, as opposed to other competitors that haven't sacrificed as much. Yes, Yamada is in fact a joke to me. It also takes a lot more work to train toward one's later thirties than earlier, especially physically for Asians as far as I've heard, so I imagine that'd be another reason why someone wouldn't want to try bouncing back entirely at that age, somebody like Yuuji aside. Yamada was always running like somebody five years older than he actually was anyway
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 26, 2020 13:27:52 GMT -5
Honestly I agree with you. I’ve always considered him the weakest All-Star; even though he did come close to Total Victory that was arguably on an insanely easy course. Ever since he came back in Sasuke 14, he’s had this inability to balance speed and technique. Whenever he’s gone quickly, he’s always made a mistake like his Jumping Spider fails, otherwise he’ll just time out for going way too slowly. Defo wasn’t worth the hype; but I guess he was obsessed with SASUKE like no other.
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Post by ChiBiJKT48 on Jun 27, 2020 5:33:40 GMT -5
Focus back on the question, if bounce back you talk about is him returning to Third Stage, I think yes. Kanno never fail Second Stage beside when he fail Balance Tank and when he suffer injury. Balance Tank no longer exist *but definitely more prefer it to be on Second Stage rather than Backstream*, leave only his injury to be worried. But the more greater challenge is to overcome the First Stage, as he had so many trouble at there recently. I guess we could see him clear First Stage *and thus getting to Third Stage, as Second Stage is almost become a joke now* maybe two/three more times, considering SASUKE is back to being held only one tournament a year because of budget and current condition, thus making him will attempt the next year's tournament at 36 years old, which is also the age the last time Yamada Katsumi making it to Third Stage.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jun 27, 2020 5:47:38 GMT -5
Personally I’m not sure. As I mentioned he doesn’t train for Sasuke that much anymore, and his last few runs have shown a departure from the Kanno we knew before (the one who would constantly make Stage 3). His Sasuke 33 run sucked, his 35 run would’ve resulted in a likely timeout had he not failed the Dragon Glider, and his 37 run he almost failed the quad steps which would’ve been horrific for his self-esteem.
Also, just because someone hasn’t failed Stage 2 recently doesn’t mean they won’t fail it in the future. Kong always destroyed Stage 2 and never legitimately failed it until Sasuke 34 where he just didn’t have the stamina anymore. Also I think Sasuke 38’s Stage 2 will be harder; and Kanno hasn’t faced a lot of the newer obstacles like the Reverse Conveyer.
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Post by abctime013456789 on Jun 27, 2020 6:04:19 GMT -5
Defintely agree. His shoulder injury got the better of him in SASUKE 32. Kanno has not faced the Rolling Log, and the Reverse Conveyor, so there is always a chance he can return to go to Stage 3. Mr. Octopus had his peaks at 59 and 63 years old. Yuuji won for the last time at 32 years old or 33. Nagano had his peak at 34 years old. Peaks of some contestants are at around 30 years old, like Shingo at 25 (like tns8597 pointed out) and peak of Nagasaki Shunsuke was at 19 years old in SASUKE 17.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jan 14, 2021 11:52:06 GMT -5
Anyone want to update their opinion on this now after Sasuke 38?
I still personally think there is no way he's making it back to Stage 3 again; it'll be 6 years by the time Sasuke 39 comes round.
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Post by m4tt3r0x on Jan 14, 2021 12:03:17 GMT -5
He made a YouTube channel so we’ll see how much he ups his game. If Tomo could make Stage 3 in 36 I don’t see why Kanno couldn’t if he got past Stage 1, considering things aren’t too different.
Let’s say he beats Stage 1 in 39 and fails Stage 2. He’d be 37 for Sasuke 40 most likely and would have at least a couple decent attempts of making it past Stage 2 after that. Darvish did it at 38. Yuuji almost did it three times in a row at 42 and was worse on Stage 2 than Kanno from Sasukes 28-30. Kanno’s also only really “failed” Stage 2 once.
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tns8597
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Post by tns8597 on Jan 14, 2021 13:30:49 GMT -5
m4tt3r0x I get what you're saying but I feel like you're treating age as though it affects everyone in the same way, which it doesn't. For example, it had basically zero effect on someone like Yoshiyuki Okuyama, but people like Kongu seemed to suffer quite badly by the time they got to the same age (40 plus).
Kanno's only 35 so I'm not attributing age as being a huge factor in his decline. His decline is primarily to do with his ever-repeating shoulder injury which has caused him to lose a lot of athleticism just by virtue of him not being able to train for a large proportion of the last 3-4 years, and also bigger family responsibilities (similar to Nagasaki of recent). He also doesn't really train many Sasuke-related moves anymore, with most of his workouts tending to be centred around weightlifting; you also basically never see him train with the other competitors. It used to be Kawaguchi, Kanno, and Nagasaki who would often train together, and the latter two basically seem to have given up. That's why I was surprised how he reacted in his post-Sasuke 37 interview because he acted as though he'd basically given everything up for Sasuke in an almost Yamada-like manner (I mean he literally said 'Sasuke is my life') when he didn't seem to have really trained that much specifically towards Sasuke leading up to both 37 and 38. Yes, he got back in good shape (though nowhere near as athletic as beforehand) but he can't expect to perform wonders after just doing heavy bench pressing; powerlifting doesn't equate to the skills needed for any of the stages.
That's why I'm not particularly confident in him clearing Stage 1 again. There just seems to be this rhetoric-reality gap between what he says/how he values Sasuke and the work he's willing to put in to actually go back to his former glory days. As it stands, I don't think he trains in the right way and hasn't had as much time to train due to his shoulder and to spend additional time with his family (both reasons being absolutely fair enough). I do feel really bad for the guy though; you have to realise how unlucky he had to be for his shoulder to dislocate twice during competition. I'm not d*cking on him or anything as I sympathise with what's happened to him over the last few years, I just feel like I'm being realistic here.
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