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Post by SRW on May 14, 2009 15:24:29 GMT -5
19 is the hardest overall especially in light of stage 1 for reasons already stated!
Interesting if we look at the other stages - stage 2 is not much harder than it is now the only change was the sky walk and alot of people have said that thing is easy I think it looks more interesting than the swing ladder and would like to have seen it in action on the show and not at S21 trials.
Salmon Ladder has no weight ends so smidge easier? but you could do a Okuyama on the stick slider.
Stage 3 the difficulty is the same as current really - the Ascending climb is basically the Hang climb with coloured but different shape hand holds rather than rocks but you would climb it in a similar fashion and im sure you can use your feet.
The only factor here really besides that is the final ring theres no notch on it in 19 and the track is less declined so how annoyingly hard that might have been we don't know.
Otherwise they are the same.
Final stage -Same, ladder and rope only difference is at the time it would have been the steel ladder instead of a ropey ends one, the fact the steel one was totally stationary could poss been easier than the ropey one they updated to in the end.
So really IMO is balanced but because much of the significance of all this comes from the first stage really and because everyone gets a go at stage 1 and has to pass it to remotly get anywhere then 19 has to be the hardest as the difficulty was taken to heights of absurdity - JS and FC (that coulda killed someone)!
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Post by VenusHeadTrap on May 14, 2009 17:45:18 GMT -5
So really IMO is balanced but because much of the significance of all this comes from the first stage really and because everyone gets a go at stage 1 and has to pass it to remotly get anywhere then 19 has to be the hardest as the difficulty was taken to heights of absurdity - JS and FC (that coulda killed someone)! Shunsuke's still alive, lol. Here's my theory on that 19 absurdity. Since 18 didn't produce so many fails as it was meant to, 19 was a result of the competitors still doing well in 18 when I'm pretty sure they wanted. They wanted to make damn sure that it was harder. |
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Post by SRW on May 14, 2009 17:57:02 GMT -5
Yep its been said many times including by me - sasuke 19 is what 18 was mean't to have been. The designers were clearly not happy that 3 did so well and if Nagano had not got DQ lol who knows the form he was on you wouldn't bet against him getting to the end.
So in 19 they made some improvements but kinda over did it a over compensation if you like.
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chackpop
David Campbell
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Post by chackpop on May 14, 2009 18:37:56 GMT -5
I say Sasuke 20 should have been Sasuke 18. Three to Stage Two, One to Stage Three. Like in Sasuke 5.
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Post by Badalight on May 14, 2009 21:35:03 GMT -5
I agree with chack pop.
19: Stage 1 and 2 were harder.
22: Final stage was harder (Unless the time limits are different, but we have no idea so it's hard to judge)
stage 3: Same...
Stage 2 was harder in 19 because of
1. Skywalk looks a little harder than the swing ladder
2. The stick slider was still able to take people out.
Now if you go and watch Sasuke 22, look at how many people would've failed had they not added those stoppers to the bar... most of them if not all of them would have.
Plus it loks like the final gap is a bit shorter in the last shin tourneys, maybe it's just me though, but I compared 18 to 22 and they look a bit different, and the last gap in 18 was shorter to compensate.
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Post by VenusHeadTrap on May 14, 2009 22:13:50 GMT -5
Now if you go and watch Sasuke 22, look at how many people would've failed had they not added those stoppers to the bar... most of them if not all of them would have. That's a metaphor. |
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Post by obakemono on May 14, 2009 22:32:06 GMT -5
Stage 2 was harder in 19 because of 1. Skywalk looks a little harder than the swing ladder 2. The stick slider was still able to take people out. Now if you go and watch Sasuke 22, look at how many people would've failed had they not added those stoppers to the bar... most of them if not all of them would have. I disagree on both of these points. The Skywalk is faster than the Swing Ladder, and no one's going to fail it either, so I don't think it would have made any kind of difference. After 21 everyone stopped bothering about the Stick Slider since it's impossible to fail, so they don't try to correct the bar. You can't say someone would have failed it were it different, because they would have approached it differently. Plus, the time limit in 19 was 10 seconds higher, so even if you did a ridiculously slow attempt like Lee En Chi in 21, you would still pass. |
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Post by Oti on May 15, 2009 0:28:55 GMT -5
Well, we don't know exactly what the Sky Walk was, so we can't say for sure. We saw something that resembled it in the trials, but that's not proof. If it is a ledge that you use your feet on, though, that's gonna be slower than the Swing Ladder. It's going to take more time to walk and climb than it will to just climb.
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Post by obakemono on May 15, 2009 4:36:10 GMT -5
It's as close to proof as we're going to get. People in the trials were flying across it faster than anyone does the Swing Ladder.
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Post by jfeathe on May 15, 2009 8:12:51 GMT -5
I thought of this because the 22nd felt like the hardest the course has been since the 19th. Judge them by the course results will you? Consider which tournament you would choose to run in order to have the best chance of beating stage 1 and 2. Below are distinctly what make the different courses difficult. 19 stage 1: Log Grip does not unlock, you must push off. Pole Maze. Jumping Spider biggest leap. Flying Chute rope is farthest away. 115 seconds. 22 stage 1: Circle Hammer < Pole Maze? Path from Half pipe attack to Soritatsu Kabe is more narrow. Slider Jump and net at end of stage is largest cause to time out. 120 seconds. 19 stage 2: Possible Stick Slider error (just remember Okuyama). Sky Walk < Swing Ladder. 80 seconds. 22 stage 2: Heavier Salmon Ladder. Heavier wall lift. 80 seconds. This is honestly a toss up for me too. I could have been a little more detailed on how I explained the course's differences, but that's best left ambiguous until discussion. How much heavier was the Wall Lift? Anyway, I believe Sasuke 19 was harder for all the reasons stated above. |
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Post by obakemono on May 15, 2009 8:17:39 GMT -5
Plus, the time limit in 19 was 10 seconds higher ... Actually I was wrong there, lol. It was 80 and they increased it to 90 for Sasuke 20. The Wall Lift has been the same weight for a long time. |
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Post by RiderLeangle on May 15, 2009 13:03:27 GMT -5
Now if you go and watch Sasuke 22, look at how many people would've failed had they not added those stoppers to the bar... most of them if not all of them would have. I know Urushihara definitely would have considering the bar got caught on the supports for a second (didn't you notice how he complete stopped for a short ammount of time) |
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Post by Oti on May 15, 2009 13:13:02 GMT -5
Close to proof isn't proof. Just sayin'.
But yeah, I'm pretty sure if people who have competed in 22 somehow went back and tried 19 again, most of them would probably still fail. They just can't handle the distance on the Jumping Spider.
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Post by Captain Obvious on May 15, 2009 19:51:14 GMT -5
My first reaction was complete agreeance with what Oti just said about the Jumping Spider in tournaments 19 and 22.
On second thought, though, I realize that I've never seen the two compared visually. I know there's been a few Jumping Spider comparison pictures made, but does someone have a 19/22 one they'd mind posting?
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Post by obakemono on May 16, 2009 1:09:08 GMT -5
On second thought, though, I realize that I've never seen the two compared visually. I know there's been a few Jumping Spider comparison pictures made, but does someone have a 19/22 one they'd mind posting? 19: (credit to Ube)  22:  |
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Post by obakemono on May 16, 2009 1:12:10 GMT -5
Close to proof isn't proof. Just sayin'. I believe the phrase is 'getting off an on a technicality.' On second thought, though, I realize that I've never seen the two compared visually. I know there's been a few Jumping Spider comparison pictures made, but does someone have a 19/22 one they'd mind posting? 19: (credit to Ube) 22: |
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Post by VenusHeadTrap on May 16, 2009 1:34:27 GMT -5
I wouldn't mind doing one at all.   After doing this I felt it was a huge difference mainly in distance only, lacking the distance in 22 that you needed in 19. The walls are just closer. But then I looked at the pictures a little harder, it appeared to be not so much distance as I thought before. It's really a small mixture of lowering and bringing the walls a little closer after the results of 19. As far as I know the walls have been the same ever since 20. Poor Colin.  |
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scnoi1217
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Post by scnoi1217 on May 16, 2009 2:36:53 GMT -5
Look at someone like Katsumi Yamada, who has hit the Jumping Spider pretty much the same each time. In 20-22, he's stuck on the bottom parts of the walls, in 19 he misses almost completely. So there definitely is a height difference.
I'll throw my $.02 into the 19 vs. 22 argument.
Stage 1:
In 19, Log Grip doesn't start easily (thus wasting time), Jumping Spider is harder, competitors had a more successful time on the Slider Jump than 19's Flying Chute. Plus time was 115, very strict, probably more strict than 22's time limit.
Stage 2: Downhill Jump was easier in 19 (the angle of the ramp has changed a lot, I think they are different), plus the rope speed in 19 was slower. Stick Slider could still be failed in 19. I guess the Skywalk would be harder than the Swing Ladder, but both are easy (as long as the Skywalk is the same as the Power Hanger from the trials).
Stage 3: Sending Climber (Ascending Climb) is harder than the Hang Climbing.
So imo, 19 is def. harder
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Post by Oti on May 16, 2009 3:48:40 GMT -5
Or "there is no real proof, so there should be no argument here". Anyway, those pictures look the same to me. I had to look really closely to notice any difference. It looks like they lowered it more than brought it closer. Maybe since a lot of people are starting to get past it, they'll change it back to how it was in 19.  |
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Post by obakemono on May 16, 2009 4:05:00 GMT -5
Or "there is no real proof, so there should be no argument here". lol, it's the same exact structure, most probably the very one that was used on Sasuke. There's no proof in the same that there's no proof the Cliff Hanger used in 21 was the same one used in 22. |
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