SuperTiger
Yamada Kōji
Kunoichi-san
*meyolow*
Posts: 1,187
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Post by SuperTiger on Feb 20, 2018 15:09:58 GMT -5
I mean, as weird as having the wall last will be I'm not fussed about it. At least they did something to this stage. I won't know whether I like this or not until we have a time limit, but I hated the lack of broadcasted runs last season. If taking out the TR/LJC results in more broadcasted attempts I'm okay with it. It's not ideal, but with this state of the show atm, I don't think there's a lot of room for us to be picky.
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Post by Kane-Not-Kosugi on Feb 20, 2018 15:24:43 GMT -5
Is it just me, or is this Stage 1 designed for more Stage 1 clears? I could see a lot of people who have gone downhill lately to maybe make a return to Stage 2 in this tournament now (Kanno, Ryo(?), maybe even Shingo!?!?!).
I'm gonna predict a 70 second time limit with at least 20 clears. And this speculation about Stage 4!?!? I hope it's attempted, but not beaten. UGH I'm hyped af now...
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Post by BobbyG11 on Feb 20, 2018 15:29:09 GMT -5
I’m predicting a blood bath of no more than 1-2 clears in the first 80 ppl. All bets are off after that. That dipper is going to thrash everyone and the lower time will wreak havoc on the mind.
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Post by Messup434 on Feb 20, 2018 22:16:56 GMT -5
Despite having them talk to and share ideas with Inui, ATS has no sway on Sasuke at all, they might be getting some blame because of the Dragon Glider being modeled off the Double Dipper but they have no place in this conversation, they have their own philosophies as far as course design and have made some good obstacles and stages (Along with some really crappy ones...), I mean we can blame them for the farce that was ANW9's Stage 2 and Wingnut Alley, but yeah they have no place in this conversation. (Also ironically enough their course design ideas are closer to M9 than Inui's team lol ) They have an indirect, rather than direct, sway on Sasuke. Some of the newer obstacles we've been seeing in Sasuke lately are derivatives of ideas inspired by ATS and Inui's teamwork, although ATS doesn't ultimately choose what goes where. The point is that it doesn't matter where Inui is getting his ideas from (likely from ATS cooperation), I find it hard to believe anybody could sincerely argue the obstacles added post M9 era are, for the most part (some like the Vertical Limit are pretty awesome), more intriguing or innovative. As for the philosophy of ATS, I think they've made some cool stuff on occassion (some of their upper body stuff, like that birdhouse obstacle in Stage 3 last year, aren't just a complete mess, like the Wall Drop from one of Philly's qualifiers), but a lot of their philosophy just relies on copying the format of M9, which is why they seem so similar. For example, the current first stage of ANW has had Sasuke 27's formatting since Vegas was a thing. Obstacles are usually just inspired by what was on that course, and fit in the formula like a puzzle piece (e.g. that metal spin-parkour run obstacle is just an overly convoluted Half Pipe Attack). But to get back on topic, when Sasuke is trying to become more like ANW (just look at the new name and the eerily similar 6 obstacle style formatting ending at a Wall), and ANW isn't known for their "best" obstacles or originality (usually just making obstacles that try to imitate M9's cool stuff0, I'm not surprised I'm personally not satisfied with the direction Sasuke has been heading recently. But to each his own Yeah, most popular ATS obstacles (at least the kinetic ones) seem to make their way over to Sasuke nowadays. There could be much worse things (nothing different at all), but I see how it kind of makes it seem less authentic and creative. I didn't really think about how ending at the Warped Wall is mimicking ANW! One slightly reassuring thing is that there are, by official count, seven obstacles on this course and one is motorized, so maybe it won't just be a clone of ANW. Random thought I'm having: I hope the empty pond behind the Wall in the background doesn't look too awkward. I'm guessing they didn't build the Lumberjack Climb at all this time, right?
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Dazed (Wiin)
Ishikawa Terukazu
"Morimoto YusukEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE."
Posts: 464
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Post by Dazed (Wiin) on Feb 20, 2018 23:00:04 GMT -5
If they are going for a speedy course, Jun and Drew should have it. Dai Igarashi could to, but he was unable to compete this time.
Getting rid of the last two obstacles.... not sure how I feel...
I am excited though, I just hope the course is not even easier now.
Also, I would like it if they added another 0.5 meters to the Wall, just to be a pain and make it dangerous again (to the 'better competitors').
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Post by TCM on Feb 22, 2018 10:14:03 GMT -5
There will be a new obstacle in Stage 3. Machine translation also hinting at a rest area being added, but there's no explicit saying where (not that I could gleam anyways).
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Post by Messup434 on Feb 22, 2018 10:53:03 GMT -5
First part: Woohoo!
Second part: Boooo if they toned-down the Ultra Crazy Cliffhanger and Vertical Limit Kai Kai challenge.
Does he really want a winner the tournament after he changes some obstacles up? You’d think he’d either aim for a win this tournament and change stuff up for 36 or change stuff up here and try to make sure no one wins!
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Post by TCM on Feb 22, 2018 12:18:20 GMT -5
If that rest area is after the UCCH, I will be 100% okay with that. Because at the end of the day, SASUKE is a television show. The goal of a television show is to be entertaining and satisfying. And for the little audience it has, we need to see something in Stage 3 other than one person trying the stage past the UCCH. If you think that somehow anyone who gets past it and benefits from the rest after it demeans their progress and achievement, congrats. You just used the Yamada excuse like when he tried to discredit Yuuji after 24. And I'll even throw in 27 in there, too.
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nekomi3
Kawashima Takayuki
Posts: 357
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Post by nekomi3 on Feb 22, 2018 12:22:08 GMT -5
Call it New obs in Stage 3 is Nail Clipper
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Feb 22, 2018 12:45:25 GMT -5
If that rest area is after the UCCH, I will be 100% okay with that. Because at the end of the day, SASUKE is a television show. The goal of a television show is to be entertaining and satisfying. And for the little audience it has, we need to see something in Stage 3 other than one person trying the stage past the UCCH. If you think that somehow anyone who gets past it and benefits from the rest after it demeans their progress and achievement, congrats. You just used the Yamada excuse like when he tried to discredit Yuuji after 24. And I'll even throw in 27 in there, too. I disagree strongly. It isn't satisfying at all to have an achievement made less valuable by making it easier to achieve. Especially to those of us who have been watching for the past few tournaments. Obviously anyone who clears Stage 3 is skilled. But in Sasuke, the onus has always been on the competitors to adapt. Nagano adapting to the extended Third Stage in 17. Morimoto adapting to the Crazy Cliffhanger in 29. Not the course changing to accommodate the current perceived skill level of the competitors, to encourage or ensure a particular result. The entire point is for the competitors to increase in skill along with the course. Making stages easier for the sake of a clear goes against the point of Sasuke to begin with. You can argue that it is needed to save the show from becoming stagnant, boring or to increase ratings. But trying to complain that such a change wouldn't cheapen the final result is ridiculous.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Feb 22, 2018 13:14:23 GMT -5
There's a difference between making a course made too difficult toned down to more fair as opposed to nerfing a stage for the hopes of someone getting through it. I don't see anyone complaining about Stage 3 getting toned down from the 14-15 stage to the 16-17 version of it...
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Post by SRW on Feb 22, 2018 14:12:06 GMT -5
If stage 3 has truly been nerfed and someone then wins it's worthless like 27.
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Feb 22, 2018 14:16:05 GMT -5
There's a difference between making a course made too difficult toned down to more fair as opposed to nerfing a stage for the hopes of someone getting through it. I don't see anyone complaining about Stage 3 getting toned down from the 14-15 stage to the 16-17 version of it... But in this case, breaking up the centerpiece of an entire stage (the UCCH/VLK combo) that is the ONLY reason the Stage has yet to be cleared is a far more drastic step than nerfing individual obstacles or shifting them around. It would be like them flat out removing the Crazy Cliffhanger in 29. It was the centerpiece of the stage at the time too. There are better, subtler ways this could've been done. Shortening the Drum Hopper Kai/Flying Bars, a rest platform before the Sidewinder, making the VLK kai shorter while keeping the two transitions. Heck, giving an extended rest time before the combo. The example you described is nowhere near the same as removing the entire point, and main challenge of the stage by artificially seperating two obstacles that have been paired together from the start. At that point, you may as well redesign the whole stage, and it's almost as bad as nerfing the entire stage like in 27.
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Post by TCM on Feb 22, 2018 14:53:45 GMT -5
If that rest area is after the UCCH, I will be 100% okay with that. Because at the end of the day, SASUKE is a television show. The goal of a television show is to be entertaining and satisfying. And for the little audience it has, we need to see something in Stage 3 other than one person trying the stage past the UCCH. If you think that somehow anyone who gets past it and benefits from the rest after it demeans their progress and achievement, congrats. You just used the Yamada excuse like when he tried to discredit Yuuji after 24. And I'll even throw in 27 in there, too. I disagree strongly. It isn't satisfying at all to have an achievement made less valuable by making it easier to achieve. Especially to those of us who have been watching for the past few tournaments. Obviously anyone who clears Stage 3 is skilled. But in Sasuke, the onus has always been on the competitors to adapt. Nagano adapting to the extended Third Stage in 17. Morimoto adapting to the Crazy Cliffhanger in 29. Not the course changing to accommodate the current perceived skill level of the competitors, to encourage or ensure a particular result. The entire point is for the competitors to increase in skill along with the course. Making stages easier for the sake of a clear goes against the point of Sasuke to begin with. You can argue that it is needed to save the show from becoming stagnant, boring or to increase ratings. But trying to complain that such a change wouldn't cheapen the final result is ridiculous. The course has only ever changed to accommodate the perceived skill level of the competitors with the sole exception of faulty obstacles. Which, it turns out, fixing a lot of the faults with obstacles made them easier having worked as functioned. Nagano adapted to the extended Third Stage but he did so with an easier version of the Jumping Bars than the one he failed on. Morimoto had lowered jets on his Backstream attempt (which arguably helped given he would barely clear the stage). Also, after the Iron Paddler sapped all of his strength, due to the 30 second rest rule being removed, he was able to spend five minutes to rest so he could have a chance of clearing the Crazy Cliffhanger, which he ended up doing. By that logic, these and any runs where competitors benefit from a production change other than falter from one shouldn't been seen with the praise many of them are. Because most production changes aren't like 29's where it's a format one-off. Difficulty is adjusted from tournament to tournament consistently, such as changing the Jumping Bars in direct response to no one reaching the Pipe Slider in back-to-back tournaments, changing obstacles like the Sending Climber into the Hang Climbing. M9 went from the philosophy to an all 100 Stage 1 fail to being relieved to get 9 clears a couple tournaments later the moment that concept almost became a reality. They've changed obstacles over injury concerns, which made them easier to hold onto. They've changed obstacle difficulty mid-tournament. I'm not saying you have to agree with every change, but to essentially arbitrarily value an achievement as less from something outside of a competitor's control is nonsense. And maybe I've been interpreting their reactions wrong, but I don't think Nagano, Yuuji or Morimoto cared much about changes the courses when reacting to their progress or wins during their runs. And this prospective change, that we don't even know is happening for certain, doesn't change the difficulty of those individual obstacles. I wasn't advocating for changing the obstacles themselves. And given Yusuke literally didn't care what he did after clearing the CCH the first time even after taking five minutes to rest, I doubt he'd be in a huff should he be able to touch land after the Cliffhanger again.
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Post by SRW on Feb 22, 2018 15:17:16 GMT -5
Yuujis win in 27 wasn't impressive because it was such a huge nerf in stage 3 I doubt he would have cleared the 26 version but of he had and then won I'd give him massive props. The ucch and vlk need to remain as one that's the ultimate moment of stage 3 now if people pass it much easier with multiple finalists and a winner it devalues it badly to me. The size of the nerf and what they actually nerf defines how much of a deal it is to me personally.
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Post by krmikulitsi on Feb 22, 2018 15:22:47 GMT -5
If there's gonna be a nerf, then... Like cmon Inui, if that's really gonna happen. I want that miraculous feeling that someone beats the combo. At least for me I'm patient enough to wait some tournaments because I'm sure someone is gonna have that strength to beat the combo someday
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Feb 22, 2018 15:29:11 GMT -5
I disagree strongly. It isn't satisfying at all to have an achievement made less valuable by making it easier to achieve. Especially to those of us who have been watching for the past few tournaments. Obviously anyone who clears Stage 3 is skilled. But in Sasuke, the onus has always been on the competitors to adapt. Nagano adapting to the extended Third Stage in 17. Morimoto adapting to the Crazy Cliffhanger in 29. Not the course changing to accommodate the current perceived skill level of the competitors, to encourage or ensure a particular result. The entire point is for the competitors to increase in skill along with the course. Making stages easier for the sake of a clear goes against the point of Sasuke to begin with. You can argue that it is needed to save the show from becoming stagnant, boring or to increase ratings. But trying to complain that such a change wouldn't cheapen the final result is ridiculous. The course has only ever changed to accommodate the perceived skill level of the competitors with the sole exception of faulty obstacles. Which, it turns out, fixing a lot of the faults with obstacles made them easier having worked as functioned. Nagano adapted to the extended Third Stage but he did so with an easier version of the Jumping Bars than the one he failed on. Morimoto had lowered jets on his Backstream attempt (which arguably helped given he would barely clear the stage). Also, after the Iron Paddler sapped all of his strength, due to the 30 second rest rule being removed, he was able to spend five minutes to rest so he could have a chance of clearing the Crazy Cliffhanger, which he ended up doing. By that logic, these and any runs where competitors benefit from a production change other than falter from one shouldn't been seen with the praise many of them are. Because most production changes aren't like 29's where it's a format one-off. Difficulty is adjusted from tournament to tournament consistently, such as changing the Jumping Bars in direct response to no one reaching the Pipe Slider in back-to-back tournaments, changing obstacles like the Sending Climber into the Hang Climbing. M9 went from the philosophy to an all 100 Stage 1 fail to being relieved to get 9 clears a couple tournaments later the moment that concept almost became a reality. They've changed obstacles over injury concerns, which made them easier to hold onto. They've changed obstacle difficulty mid-tournament. I'm not saying you have to agree with every change, but to essentially arbitrarily value an achievement as less from something outside of a competitor's control is nonsense. And maybe I've been interpreting their reactions wrong, but I don't think Nagano, Yuuji or Morimoto cared much about changes the courses when reacting to their progress or wins during their runs. And this prospective change, that we don't even know is happening for certain, doesn't change the difficulty of those individual obstacles. I wasn't advocating for changing the obstacles themselves. And given Yusuke literally didn't care what he did after clearing the CCH the first time even after taking five minutes to rest, I doubt he'd be in a huff should he be able to touch land after the Cliffhanger again. Fair enough. And yeah, it does seem strange to complain about adjustment when that is a reality constantly in Sasuke. I just think that changes like nerfing the UCCH/VLK or what Sasuke 27 did to Stage 3 are far, far more drastic and therefore have a much bigger impact on the atmosphere of a tournament.
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Post by Klorel439 on Feb 22, 2018 15:41:21 GMT -5
Even if a break is added after the UCCH, they still have to do the Vertical Limit Kai, which even on it's own is still an insanely difficult obstacle.
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Post by SRW on Feb 22, 2018 16:43:26 GMT -5
Even if a break is added after the UCCH, they still have to do the Vertical Limit Kai, which even on it's own is still an insanely difficult obstacle. Still kills it for me they caved in because of people whining over it on the internet lol. Anyone beats this Stage 3 now its going to be like ahhh but would they without the nerf??? not a cool thing. Now say we had this year 2 tournaments and still no one could do it then fine nerf it but give it a bit more time first.
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Eclipse
Satō Jun
Retired Staff
Posts: 737
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Post by Eclipse on Feb 22, 2018 17:46:27 GMT -5
Even if a break is added after the UCCH, they still have to do the Vertical Limit Kai, which even on it's own is still an insanely difficult obstacle. Still kills it for me they caved in because of people whining over it on the internet lol. Anyone beats this Stage 3 now its going to be like ahhh but would they without the nerf??? not a cool thing. Now say we had this year 2 tournaments and still no one could do it then fine nerf it but give it a bit more time first. What makes you think that the internet had anything to do with it? They could have decided internally after Morimoto's attempt that it could damage ratings if we have another 4-5 seasons where nobody makes progress on it, and that it might be pushing physical possibility.
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