Stage 3 *Spoilers*

[SuperTiger]

So i was thinking about this while watching Sasuke 15. In Sasuke 14-15, most of the obstacles were failed. Rumbling Dice, Body Prop, Curtain Cling, Cliff Hanger, Jumping Bars, Climbing Bars, Devil's Swing. For those counting that's 7/8, the only one that was not failed was the Pipe Slider, and it wasn't attempted in that span. While more people attempted the 3rd Stage in that span (16) all the obstacles were absolutely brutal. Since Sasuke 19 the 3rd Stage has been the same and has had 8 attempts made on it. No body had failed the first 2 obstacles (Arm Rings and Descending Globe Grasp) Devil Steps have been failed once, Cliff Hanger has taken out 3, and the 4 that cleared it all beat the Jumping Bars. Takeda wiped out on the Hang Climbing, Kanno DQ'd on the Spider Flip and Nagano failed the "Grinding Ring" Yuuji ended up clearing the entire 3rd Stage, this brings me to the question, is the 3rd Stage easier than we thought, and does it need a redesign? I believe the Arm Rings need to go, and the Jumping Bars, Spider Flip, and Gliding Ring need to be made harder. Here's the comparison list i made.
Rumbling Dice>Arm Rings
Body Prop>Descending Globe Grasp/Lamp Grasper
Curtain Cling>Devil Steps
Shin Cliff Hanger>Cliff Hanger
14-15 Jumping Bars> 16-22 Jumping Bars
Hang Climbing>Climbing Bars
Devil's Swing=Spider Flip(Hard to Tell at this moment)
Pipe Slider=Gliding Ring (Hard to tell at this moment)
2 of my comparisons are "=" the one i listed first is the one im leaning towards, and some of these obstacles need more attempts before we can determine weather they are tougher than the previous ones.

[obakemono]

If you just mean which is harder in a direct comparison, that would be the new course. If you mean which was the tougher upgrade of the stage, I'd still say the new one, since Shinji Kobayashi made it all the way to the Devil's Swing in 14 and would have cleared that if he'd used the right technique.

The first three obstacles used to be harder, though, definitely.

The Rumbling Dice was much more draining than the Arm Rings, in fact the Arm Rings were a downgrade that accompanied the shortening of the Jumping Bars.

The Body Prop is an obstacle that's easy to slip off if you're not careful, but it's debatable whether it's more draining than the Globes since it doesn't solely focus on the upper body.

The Curtain Cling is harder than the Devil Steps. Honestly, much harder.

The Shin Cliff Hanger is based more on technique than I think we previously thought. Kanno and Urushihara used a very specific technique, and in Yuuji's case it was clear that he'd practised it religiously. I believe that Lee En Chi and Okuyama were strong enough to clear that obstacle, but they failed because they used the wrong technique for swinging.

Climbing Bars = Hang Climb is definitely false. The Hang Climb is far more difficult. There's nowhere near as much grip.

The Spider Flip is probably harder than the Devil's Swing, since the Devil's Swing has a fairly easy technique that almost guarantees a pass. The jump on the Spider Flip isn't too hard, but climbing up and down from it is a pain, as Kanno found out.

The Pipe Slider is more difficult than the properly functioning Gliding Ring. We can't be sure of this, but the Pipe Slider jump is of legendary difficulty unless you've practised and practised it, and it requires a lot of core strength, whereas the Gliding Ring jump looks fairly straightforward.

At the moment I think the stage is fine, but if I were to upgrade it, I'd make the first three obstacles harder, make the Jumping Bars longer and perhaps the Spider Flip jump longer. There's also the idea of putting the Arm Rings at the end but for now I think the Gliding Ring is fine.

[jfeathe]

In 15(?), Takeda cleared the Climbing Bars by hooking his legs on the rungs, something that is not possible with the Ascending Climb. So they are definitely not equivalent.

I do agree that the first three obstacles of Sasuke 14 and 15's third stage were each more difficult than the current ones. However, I think that the intention of the new obstacles is simply to wear the contestant out before the Cliffhanger.

Also, the "end" of the course is a beast. Four obstacles stringed together with only the smallest of resting platforms is extremely draining.

I think the new third stage gives competitors a false sense of security. If the Cliffhanger is cleared, it is "easy" to get really close to the end, but still fail.

[gtoneko]

I can't really make a vote on this just yet myself. Main reason is that you'd have to consider how the first 2 stages were in the past compared to how it is now.

From the 1 to 17, stage one had a good bit of luck, speed, and technique to clear it. Stage 2 really focused on speed more than anything with a bit of strength towards the end after all.


From the current generation, you'll need speed and PLENTY of strength to make it through for both stages. Technique still is present for stage one, but at the same time, strength becomes even more of a factor with the way that you're using you're upper body even more than usual. Stage 2 becomes even more of a strength drainer with the Salmon Ladder in particular.

Either way, all of the effects from having to use such amount of strength becomes apparent in the 3rd stage.

[chackpop]

I think the Body Prop is harder than the Lamp Grasper, but the Body Prop is boring to me, it takes alot of time, and doesn't focus completely on upperbody strentgh. If the producers make the gliding ring harder by making the competitor pushing it thanthe the third is okay

[japantv1210]

I think that the current Stage 3 is tougher, but it is tougher because of the amount of technique involved. The current cliffhanger is a good example of technique involved in the current stage 3 as obakemono pointed out. I also feel that other obstacles such as the glididng ring and hang climbing attribute a certain amount of technique necessary to clear the obstacles as well. I feel that 14-15's stage 3 may have been more draining, but it did not involve nearly the amount of technique involved in stage 3 today. In the old stage 3, if you had the phenomenal upper body strength you could clear it. However, in the current stage 3, one minor technical mistake and you could be drinking muddy water.

[chackpop]

Let's not forget, in the Sasuke 14 and 15, many people got to the third stage and didn't have a lot of upperbody strength. In shin-sasuke to get to the third stage, you have to beat the salmon ladder, which means you have alot of upper body strength.

[quasikoz]

I miss the Rumbling Dice. It was simple but still required alot of strength.

As for which 3rd Stage was better. I think this current 3rd Stage is more balanced. Every obstacle can't be so difficult that no one can clear the stage. I know Nagano almost did and Yuuji actually did, but that's only 2 people out of how many Sasuke's?? I think the producers are regretting making the Shin-Cliffhanger so difficult.

But if any other modifications would be made to the 3rd stage I'd love to see both the Arm Rings & Globe Grasp gone and replace both with the Rumbling Dice. It's one less obstacle, I know, but I think it keeps the stage balanced in terms of being difficult but possible to complete.

[Homeslice]

Well, people are starting to figure out the Shin-Cliff Hanger, so I think it's good as-is. Lee and Okuyama just couldn't hold on after the jump over the second gap, but it looked like they knew what they had to do otherwise.

The Arm Rings will probably stay a bit longer. And I think the original Globe Grasp was a lot harder; hey, it's taken out some good names, like Takeda, as well as - 3 times in a row - Nakata.

[RiderLeangle]

Well look at Urushihara on the Cliffhanger, he barely took a swing and he made it. Then again isn't he one of the Park Stars?

And the Kudari Ranpu Grasper is probably there just so they can get down to the Devil Steps.
As for it comparing to the original, it's not as hard as theres less of a reach up and the angle makes the screws holding up the balls (this doesn't sound right does it...) is farther forward which leaves more room for your hand to go forward.

[davidcampbell]

I think the first 3 are kind of a joke for most people that have passed stage 2. I'd like to see the body prop come back as well as the pipe slider....(though if I get sent back, I hope they still have that easy gliding ring haha!). The gliding ring as it is doesn't seem to require any technique or all that much strength.

The first part of stage 3 would be better if the first 3 obstacles had no resting spots, and the first rest was before the cliffhanger. Now THAT would take some competitors out!

I also liked the curtain cling.

[RiderLeangle]

Your post kind of gave me an idea, replace the Swing Ladder with the Arm Rings, After that near perfect stage 2 (And then Sato had to combo break )

And I kind of like the no resting idea, then again it didn't work so well in 18 though.

And after seeing Urushihara, I bet you're rethinking the method you mentioned in your video, you'd be screwed if you held the ring like that.

[davidcampbell]

rider: yeah I get what you mean about the angles globe grasp being easier than the flat one.

[Deleted]

I guess. You only have to practice on a few obstacles (Shin-Cliff Hanger, Jumping Bars, Acending Climb, Spider flip.) The rest you could just do...

But in the older tournaments, you had to practice on more obstacles (Globe Grasp, Body Prop, Curtain Cling)

I'm assuming the Descending Globe Grasp is easier than the normal one, but thats cause it looks easier...

[obakemono]

I dunno. I'd say the only obstacle you need to specifically practice would be the Cliff Hanger.

[Homeslice]

Apr 17, 2009 15:37:18 GMT -5 RiderLeangle said:

Your post kind of gave me an idea, replace the Swing Ladder with the Arm Rings, After that near perfect stage 2 (And then Sato had to combo break )

Would've been the first perfect Stage 2 since Sasuke 6, when all 5 stage 1 survivors cleared stage 2 as well. You think about it, Nagano did the combo breaker in 15 and Kenichi Arai did so in 10. But back on topic....

The Arm Rings might be a little time-consuming for Stage 2 IMO. I still think the Arm Bike would work best in the Swing Ladder's place. Whatever happens, I'd be surprised if they kept the Swing Ladder next time.

But soon enough, the Descending Globe Grasp should go, though we'd need something that could lead to the Devil Steps, an obstacle that does work well in my book.

[obakemono]

I don't think Stage 2 needs too much more upper body. It'll just become Stage 3 lite.

[RiderLeangle]

Apr 17, 2009 16:00:02 GMT -5 Homeslice said:

The Arm Rings might be a little time-consuming for Stage 2 IMO. I still think the Arm Bike would work best in the Swing Ladder's place. Whatever happens, I'd be surprised if they kept the Swing Ladder next time.

Look how fast everyone got through the Arm Bike, I don't remember anyone doing it slow (apart from Muscle Park attempts that fail every other obstacle).
And now look at how everyone who cleared struggled with the last wall of the Wall Lift and STILL cleared with 17-19 seconds left

Apr 17, 2009 16:03:41 GMT -5 obakemono said:

I don't think Stage 2 needs too much more upper body. It'll just become Stage 3 lite.

You mean it isn't?

[SuperTiger]

D. Lamp Grasper is alot easier than the old lamp grasper. In the original one, you had gravity working against you, light from them(the globes) threw people off, globes were bigger, and u didnt have any momentum, in the new one, you can use your momentum and not really worry about the gravity part.

[scnoi1217]

Still, look at Bunpei in 12. He flew through the obstacle. Also, you can use momentum on the original. Look at Shingo in 12. I agree that the original is harder, but not by too much. By the time competitors reached the original, they had gone through the Rumbling Dice and Body Prop, two obstacles that are harder than the Arm Rings. Plus, we also have to remember that people that can beat the 2nd Stage today have great upper-body strength. So, if they can do the Salmon Ladder, they most likely can do this. Also, the only people to ever fail the original were Takeda and Nakata three times, and I doubt people like that (at least with their strength at the time) would even come close to the 3rd Stage now.