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Post by blah123 on Jul 7, 2016 16:08:25 GMT -5
Just wanted to give my 2 cents before retreating back into Lurkerville... Keep in mind I am a diehard like most of us, but can we just be glad we have Sasuke? Sure, it's not perfect (for all the reasons mentioned). But it's still leaps and bounds better than ANW. Just imagine if Sasuke was 80% fluff, 1 run per commercial segment, editing/faking results, etc. It is sad that Nagano is gone (for that matter, I'm sad that the All Stars haven't performed well as a whole since... 23?), I'm bummed the New Stars didn't do well, etc. But that is Sasuke! I enjoyed the broadcast. I'm glad some new faces got to Stage 3. I got emotional at times. It was 3 and a half hours well spent. Loved every minute of it. Can't wait for 33. So can we just take a step back and enjoy the show? It's still a TV show after all. It's Ok to offer constructive criticism and all, but like, Sasuke is still awesome, right!? If you think the arguments had to do with complaining about results or the rain then you missed the entire argument. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that even though the editing of the show was not perfect, it wasn't that bad. I didn't even notice it being bad until I read the spoilerific threads. I still greatly enjoyed the [edit of the] broadcast, and am already eagerly anticipating the next tournament (and hoping there is a next tournament).
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 7, 2016 16:16:31 GMT -5
If you think the arguments had to do with complaining about results or the rain then you missed the entire argument. That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that even though the editing of the show was not perfect, it wasn't that bad. I didn't even notice it being bad until I read the spoilerific threads. I still greatly enjoyed the [edit of the] broadcast, and am already eagerly anticipating the next tournament (and hoping there is a next tournament). I was physically there. I can tell you that you are correct! However.. the editing was so bad that many have called him personally step down and cancel the show if HE is editing it this after apologizing last year to the point where he had to talk to them directly to give him another chance for next year. He spent TWO days doing this. THIS is the argument. You may like the editing and we both may like the tournament (because honestly I did having seen the event live) but to automatically dismiss the calls from the target audience over the horrendous editing that yielded no ratings rise is denying that the calls for cancellation have been made. Whether they are valid or not is the issue. It was that they are made and the whole point of this thread. Having survived and documented the rise and fall of Sasuke on it's 2nd cancellation, I thought it would be worth documenting the real possibility of the fall and cancellation for the third time and 2nd on Inui's watch. People calling to fire Inui and cancel the show is.. optimistic? Sasuke is a robust show. It survived the post Banzuke fallout after 8. It survived the death of M9 and the very badly recieved tournament: 26. It survived the All Star retirement of 28. It survived the knife edge of the entire rising era. 4, 8, 17, 18, 24, 27, 31... Every era has good tournaments. Right now, it may look bleak, but looking at the bigger picture... Just no. Without a doubt you have ZERO comprehension over the vitality of Sasuke Japan in the Japanese market. "good" or "bad" tournaments are irrellavant to any conversation involving basic economics, ratings, licensing, marketing, advertising revenue and continued sponsorship. One major sponsor's contract is coming up and the caveat of whether they renew rely on the ratings rising. They haven't. As it stands now and the replies from Sasuke to calm the masses wanting the show axed, they say "give us one more chance next year is the 20th anniversary". There is nothing in that statement coupled with the fact that they lost most of their sponsors and that the ratings did not rise makes it look as if 34 is ever going to be made. 33 is make or break provided it is even in 2017. If it hits Spring 2018 and it hasn't happened, then it won't because that contract runs out. Whether the shows we like (I rank 31 as the best of all time in my book) have ZERO to do with whether investors will see worth to bring back a show that does not give them a return in their investment.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 7, 2016 16:25:55 GMT -5
I don't give a damn about the editing, the politics, or the controversy. I watch SASUKE for the action and ONLY the action...nothing else...after all, that's what SASUKE is about, right? Just normal people like me and you attempting an outrageous obstacle course. I understand why people are upset about the show looking like garbage, but saying the show should be cancelled is just wrong, and those people must not be true fans of the show. We all love SASUKE because it has inspired us to become better people, and we always will even after if it is ever cancelled. Long live SASUKE!
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 7, 2016 16:27:52 GMT -5
I don't give a damn about the editing, the politics, or the controversy. I watch SASUKE for the action and ONLY the action...nothing else...after all, that's what SASUKE is about, right? Just normal people like me and you attempting an outrageous obstacle course. I understand why people are upset about the show looking like garbage, but saying the show should be cancelled is just wrong, and those people must not be true fans of the show. We all love SASUKE because it has inspired us to become better people, and we always will even after if it is ever cancelled. Long live SASUKE! True fans value the integrity of the show and the fairness of competition and inclusion of the actual competitors of the show. If Sasuke has no interest in following that mantra that they held for 19 years and tells us that THIS is the new direction then it doesn't belong on television because it is no longer Sasuke.
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on Jul 7, 2016 16:45:03 GMT -5
Who are you to say what a "true" fan is? A true fan is a fan of the show for whatever the reason they find it enjoyable. Sasuke, at the end of the day, is first and foremost a Japanese obstacle course show. As long as it features said obstacle course and the show is made in Japan it has every right to call itself Sasuke. That is not up for debate. That is just a fact.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jul 7, 2016 16:50:52 GMT -5
If anyone thinks this is about results or handling of the rain are completely missing the point of the whole argument... This whole argument is about the fact the domestic viewers are pretty much being told their show doesn't matter, what they want to see doesn't matter, the show isn't for them anymore. Let's just hypothetically paint a picture here, I know people don't care about ANW as much as Sasuke around here but let's just hypothetically use it here, How do you think people would feel if they decide to just throw away what works and just load the show with celebs, some care but imagine a lot of them who don't care too much, and then let's just imagine that all of them get a good chunk of the broadcast DEVOTED TO THEM, random guy running? Cut to a reaction of the celeb, need time filled? Put a celeb standing there in. And then on top of that cutting out the things people want to see, like imagine it's Drew's region and they just throw him in as an afterthought. And then imagine some random spinoff that has no bearing on the show and doesn't even air in the country just getting a ton of time, like let's just imagine if there were a bunch of Swedish competitors competing somehow and if some people from the show hypothetically competed over there, and then just that gets the majority of the focus on the show. Imagine the outrage if that happened, because guess what, that's EXACTLY what happened to Sasuke as far as the editing went as 32. Why people watch doesn't matter, Your show doesn't matter, Your country doesn't matter. THAT was Sasuke 32 And yes, the hardcore fans will likely care about the competition more than the editing (for the most part...) but guess what, HARDCORE AUDIENCES ARE THE MINORITY, I'm sure you guys don't want to hear this but the hardcores don't need pandered too since they'll like it regardless and the Casuals are the important demographic since they're the majority, now let's consider what happened here for 32, THE CASUALS HATED IT, I mean you can use the argument "Well they cared enough go online", well thing is, that's what people do, they hated it so much they were furious enough to complain about it... Inui tried to go for the cheap pops by focusing on the celebs and "international appeal" which is the exact opposite of what people wanted... And let's not even bring up the sexist editing Inui did, that's a whole additional can of worms and that's even more likely to start a riot (and I already covered it a bit on page 1 too as well so just read that post if you want a mini-rant) And there's another important factor, besides the "Hardcore fans are the minority and Casual fans are the money" aspect of things, the DOMESTIC audience IS the important one, they're the ones who give ratings, they're the one who the show should be catered to, they're the ones the sponsors care about, the majority of this forum are the international fans, and guess what, we watched it on a stream, that stream came from a source, so take everyone on the forum who watched a stream, as far as ratings are concerned that's one view, and from a streaming service, that's one view TBS has no matter what is on TV... So we're not even the target demographic anyways...
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Post by blah123 on Jul 7, 2016 16:57:47 GMT -5
People always find something to complain about. And the more people become connected to the internet, the more people are going to complain. I guess all I'm saying is I thought the editing was totally fine and I'll leave it at that. Any Sasuke can be the last Sasuke, and there's probably always going to be haters. So I hope they just take it in stride and improve things.
EDIT: For the whole overly-showing-celeb thing.. I just didn't notice that when watching live. Maybe it's because I have no idea who those celebs are, or if they were even celebs at all until it was pointed out, but it felt to me like everyone was getting a relatively equal slice of the airing pie. Or, at least as equal as you can reasonably ask for when there are 100 competitors and you only have time for like 30 of them. It's not like there is a Japanese Kacy that Inui is shoving down our throats at every chance he gets. Other than fast-forwarding Takeda, Shingo, and Jun, I didn't notice any other bad no-airs, which I figure is pretty good. Certainly nothing to go crazy about.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 7, 2016 17:35:41 GMT -5
Rider is correct. Bu those of you in foreign markets who don't matter to the argument want to LITIGATE the argument instead ignoring what the Japanese audience who HATED the show and want him FIRED. If they don't want the show, don't show up for the show when it's on television then the show is canceled since there is no one to show it to. No sponsor in the world wants to pour money into a sinking ship. All of you bitched that the course wasn't changed.. it's because they HAVE no money right now because they lost their sponsors. They have one chance left and if they don't right the ship, when the contract is done, it is over.
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Post by Badalight on Jul 7, 2016 17:43:15 GMT -5
I'm not of the opinion that it's best to end the show now. There are two very legitimate arguments to make:
A) The show should end before it becomes a husk of what it once was.
B) The show should continue as long as possible, even if it's not the same Sasuke we once knew and loved.
(This type of argument has been made about so many different types of media, it's not specific to Sasuke.)
I can understand the people who fall under the A category. Sasuke is something that impacted them, and they want to keep the integrity of the show intact. They want Sasuke to "go out on top". But that's not how I personally see it. Keeping with the theme of people using wrestling allegories on this forum, wrestlers never "go out on top". Most wrestlers retire having lost their final match. They don't go out on top.
I don't mind if Sasuke continues, even if it becomes faaaaaaaar more egregious than it is. Hell, I don't even mind if it gets to the point of being unwatchable (for the record, I don't consider Sasuke 32 to be anywhere near that level).
Bad tournaments don't invalidate Sasuke as a whole and what it accomplished and what it meant for me as an individual. No matter how bad the tournaments get, that can't be tainted. The good Sasuke's will always be good, and the enjoyment that I had while watching them will always be real. I think Sasuke should continue. Do I want it to improve? Of course, but I'd rather have this than no Sasuke - any day of the week.
I don't think people on either side of the argument are wrong, but they have vastly different ways of viewing the world. It's just two different mindsets.
(This post has nothing to do with whether they're financially able to continue the show or not - more of a response to the outcry that Inui should be fired and the show should be taken off the air.)
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Post by Philip on Jul 7, 2016 17:57:04 GMT -5
Random thought: Inui could have done so much better with the editing even WITH the celebrity quota. I used to defend Inui's editing but now I'm not so sure...
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gt4dom
Jessie Graff
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Post by gt4dom on Jul 7, 2016 18:36:17 GMT -5
Random thought: Inui could have done so much better with the editing even WITH the celebrity quota. I used to defend Inui's editing but now I'm not so sure... He didn't have long to do it though and a tiny budget. I feel sorry for the guy because I feel like he really does try his hardest but he is given very little to work with and in hindsight it's easy to say he made poor decisions when he could have been told from the top to focus on celebs. He should definitely get one more go at editing and hopefully he gets the proper resources and time to do it properly in 33. Watching it a 2nd time made me realise editing kind of sucked so I hope it improves next time around because I truly believe he loves the show and it must be heartbreaking for him to have his passiom slated by the fans.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jul 7, 2016 19:07:32 GMT -5
Random thought: Inui could have done so much better with the editing even WITH the celebrity quota. I used to defend Inui's editing but now I'm not so sure... He didn't have long to do it though and a tiny budget. I feel sorry for the guy because I feel like he really does try his hardest but he is given very little to work with and in hindsight it's easy to say he made poor decisions when he could have been told from the top to focus on celebs. He should definitely get one more go at editing and hopefully he gets the proper resources and time to do it properly in 33. Watching it a 2nd time made me realise editing kind of sucked so I hope it improves next time around because I truly believe he loves the show and it must be heartbreaking for him to have his passiom slated by the fans. He had the same time he had last year sans 1-2 days. Editing is him in a room with a computer. He's already paid a salary so the tiny budget didn't physically make him cut people, edit in ANW commercials, triple fast forward, etc. Those are executive decisions because he has a different idea of what Sasuke should look like. I already linked the article like 3 times that says he's trying to emulate ANW because THEY are the new global standard. The show itself, the thing that was recorded on that lot, didn't look like what was on TV. I LIKED 32!!! I HATED what I saw on TV. Does it make sense now WHY people are livid and want him fired? Sasuke 1-14 had a team that edited the show (and the turn around was 2-3 days not weeks) so there was more room for others to stop him from going off script. Now he has zero people telling him what to do outside of contract deals and trades but the tone and shift is all Inui. Just because he loves Sasuke doesn't mean that we are in agreement in the direction of the future. He is fine with throwing a grenade and starting over if he thinks it is justified. This is the same man that thought the All-stars had to go, all the vets had to go and the 2nd stage was completely under water. THIS IS NOT SASUKE. I'm done defending him.
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Post by Badalight on Jul 7, 2016 19:38:33 GMT -5
Tbf, a completely underwater obstacle course would be pretty rad.
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Post by Alzy on Jul 7, 2016 19:46:47 GMT -5
I don't give a damn about the editing, the politics, or the controversy. I watch SASUKE for the action and ONLY the action...nothing else...after all, that's what SASUKE is about, right? Just normal people like me and you attempting an outrageous obstacle course. I understand why people are upset about the show looking like garbage, but saying the show should be cancelled is just wrong, and those people must not be true fans of the show. We all love SASUKE because it has inspired us to become better people, and we always will even after if it is ever cancelled. Long live SASUKE! True fans value the integrity of the show and the fairness of competition and inclusion of the actual competitors of the show. If Sasuke has no interest in following that mantra that they held for 19 years and tells us that THIS is the new direction then it doesn't belong on television because it is no longer Sasuke. Can you elaborate on this? since when was 32 unfair and without integrity?(if you mean the weather that's happened before right?). On the inclusion part their has always been controversial cuts and ff'eds in every tournament, I see this one as no different (doesn't mean I agree with what was shown). Did they actually say that was the new direction they were going? or are you assuming that from what you've heard or seen? Not trying to start a war I'm just curious
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jul 7, 2016 19:49:50 GMT -5
True fans value the integrity of the show and the fairness of competition and inclusion of the actual competitors of the show. If Sasuke has no interest in following that mantra that they held for 19 years and tells us that THIS is the new direction then it doesn't belong on television because it is no longer Sasuke. Can you elaborate on this? since when was 32 unfair and without integrity?(if you mean the weather that's happened before right?). On the inclusion part their has always been controversial cuts and ff'eds in every tournament, I see this one as no different (doesn't mean I agree with what was shown). Did they actually say that was the new direction they were going? or are you assuming that from what you've heard or seen? Not trying to start a war I'm just curious, your cherrypicked arguments don't always make sense I think by "integrity of the show" refers to "releasing a product the fans have come to know and low", "fairness of competition and inclusion of actual competitors" refers to not flooding the field with celebs just there for marketing (or gravure idols invited because of their boobs rather than their athletic ability)
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DonalM
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Post by DonalM on Jul 7, 2016 19:51:15 GMT -5
True fans value the integrity of the show and the fairness of competition and inclusion of the actual competitors of the show. If Sasuke has no interest in following that mantra that they held for 19 years and tells us that THIS is the new direction then it doesn't belong on television because it is no longer Sasuke. Can you elaborate on this? since when was 32 unfair and without integrity?(if you mean the weather that's happened before right?). On the inclusion part their has always been controversial cuts and ff'eds in every tournament, I see this one as no different (doesn't mean I agree with what was shown). Did they actually say that was the new direction they were going? or are you assuming that from what you've heard or seen? Not trying to start a war I'm just curious, your cherrypicked arguments don't always make sense There have been controversial cuts in previous tournaments. But they have NEVER cut out 1/3 of the greatest ninja warrior's retirement speech for some celeb fluffpieces. And of course they're not going to say they're going in a certain direction when it's obvioius from the broadcast.
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DonalM
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Post by DonalM on Jul 7, 2016 19:52:43 GMT -5
(or gravure idols invited because of their boobs rather than their athletic ability) I mean...if they really wanted boobs they would have aired Kacy...
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Post by Alzy on Jul 7, 2016 19:54:19 GMT -5
Ah ok, but haven't the celebs / models always been there? Isn't that what gives Sasuke most of its ratings from its casual fans?
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jul 7, 2016 19:56:11 GMT -5
Ah ok, but haven't the celebs / models always been there? Isn't that what gives Sasuke most of its ratings from its casual fans? There's a difference between inviting and spotlighting celebs and devoting the entire broadcast to them and just ignoring more notable things (like a heartfelt moment for the final tournament of the show's most iconic competitor)
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Post by Alzy on Jul 7, 2016 20:01:34 GMT -5
Yeah I agree cutting Nagano's moment was wrong
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