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Post by Badalight on Jul 5, 2016 1:04:35 GMT -5
If that's their official reason, I don't see why they couldn't just not show footage of him doing parkour. Hell, they showed Yuuji (the 2 time champ) without even a single second of a fluff piece, so they could've just introduced Jun quickly and at least showed him in stages 1 and 3.
I personally don't have a problem with them fast-forwarding through stage 2, because nothing exciting happened. Everyone passed with plenty of time on the clock. They showed 3/8 runs. That's enough to get the idea. Not like it had anything new worth showing anyway.
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Post by lostinube on Jul 5, 2016 1:07:47 GMT -5
It's not an official reason. It's what someone online is inferring. There are people online who are fine with them FFing the 2nd Stage, especially since everyone cleared. But there are more people who disliked what happened overall with the 2nd Stage being part of it. Here is a random article where a writer acknowledges people complaining on twitter but basically saying that with show with a long history like SASUKE, stuff (like rain) happens sometimes. As one example he uses...the streaker from ANW. mnsatlas.com/?p=6341 |
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Post by lostinube on Jul 5, 2016 1:22:54 GMT -5
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Post by Badalight on Jul 5, 2016 1:23:32 GMT -5
Honestly they've been pretty damn lucky with the weather over the years. In 32 tournaments, we've only had major problems what... 3 times? This probably being the worst example, followed by Kane getting screwed in Sasuke 8. But they can't control the weather, and they clearly weren't prepared for it, nor did they know how badly it could affect certain obstacles.
An example of that being... the flying bar. They thought by keeping the bar dry, it would allow the obstacle to work as intended, but they didn't take into account the bar slipping around (which can happen normally with too much force, but it makes it happen much more easily when it's wet). I don't know how some people can fault them for the rain, especially if it wasn't in the forecast.
As for stage 2... I'm more miffed about them not changing any of the obstacles, but we can chalk that up to budget constraints and them having to turn the conveyor off. Yeah the time limit was lenient, but it's been even more lenient in the past. Either people have short memories, or they were just upset that stage 2 in a renewal was too easy. I still don't know why that's worth complaining over though. They all got eaten by stage 3, and even without the rain I'm not confideny either Anastase or Kawaguchi could've completed it.
And I'm surprised if there's that many people complaining about cut runs. It makes sense for the people who were there and know exactly what they're missing, but I have no clue what I missed - so it's not like I can be too upset about it, nor do I know the reasons those runs were cut. I did hear about Perry.... and yeah, it should've been quite obvious that wasn't going to get shown. Drew wasn't shown when he got injured either. Injuries typically aren't shown, especially if it was more on the fault of a dangerous obstacle.
I didn't personally feel the editing was THAT different from the other post M9 era shows.
Speaking of Darvish, I don't know how popular he is, but I can say that when I was in Tokyo 2 years ago I saw his face EVERYWHERE.
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Post by arsenette on Jul 5, 2016 4:48:14 GMT -5
The cut runs wasn't completely the issue. It was what was replaced with it... ANW commercials. It was USA centric even with the Japanese. Even with Nagano. The focus on the foreign markets while simultaneously saying that the Japanese furthest man isn't worth showing was really what pushed them over the edge. First stage being heavily segmented and celeb heavy didn't help either. It didn't accurately reflect what the tournament was like. Especially compared to the editing and presentation last year.
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Post by Badalight on Jul 5, 2016 6:00:29 GMT -5
The cut runs wasn't completely the issue. It was what was replaced with it... ANW commercials. It was USA centric even with the Japanese. Even with Nagano. The focus on the foreign markets while simultaneously saying that the Japanese furthest man isn't worth showing was really what pushed them over the edge. First stage being heavily segmented and celeb heavy didn't help either. It didn't accurately reflect what the tournament was like. Especially compared to the editing and presentation last year. Unfortunately I can't comment on what the tournament was actually like because I wasn't there. While I was watching it, to me it didn't feel super ANW heavy... but looking back at it yeah, they did put ANW stuff into a lot of the new stars and even Nagano as well. At the time I thought nothing of it because those were all clips I am used to seeing, but I could see why it'd be pretty jarring to a Japanese audience. "Hey Nagano is retiring! Btw, did you know he visited America 6 years ago?" The Navi tribute for him I thought was really good though. They should've just stuck that into the actual broadcast. |
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Post by arsenette on Jul 5, 2016 6:10:04 GMT -5
The cut runs wasn't completely the issue. It was what was replaced with it... ANW commercials. It was USA centric even with the Japanese. Even with Nagano. The focus on the foreign markets while simultaneously saying that the Japanese furthest man isn't worth showing was really what pushed them over the edge. First stage being heavily segmented and celeb heavy didn't help either. It didn't accurately reflect what the tournament was like. Especially compared to the editing and presentation last year. Unfortunately I can't comment on what the tournament was actually like because I wasn't there. While I was watching it, to me it didn't feel super ANW heavy... but looking back at it yeah, they did put ANW stuff into a lot of the new stars and even Nagano as well. At the time I thought nothing of it because those were all clips I am used to seeing, but I could see why it'd be pretty jarring to a Japanese audience. "Hey Nagano is retiring! Btw, did you know he visited America 6 years ago?" The Navi tribute for him I thought was really good though. They should've just stuck that into the actual broadcast. You didn't have to be there live to notice. Heck as I mentioned in the vlog that when I went last year and compared the broadcast I still had 31 being my favorite tournament of all time. This one is near bottom when it shouldn't have. The furor in Japan is the audience that wasn't at the tournament. We are inundated here in the USA with ANW that it doesn't phase us. Sasuke shows up on TV once a year and there is zero ANW between that. So yeah it is .. "okay so it is famous overseas.. you are doing nothing to promote Japan in Japan.. wtf"... It was impersonal and skewed away from Japan... the target audience. |
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Post by dudesky1000 on Jul 5, 2016 8:04:05 GMT -5
I'm beginning to get a little confused now--there were ANW commercials DURING the show? As in to say, there were advertisements for American Ninja Warrior, the show that only airs in the USA, during the SASUKE broadcast? Maybe I was just sleepy and I blinked through every one of them, but I don't exactly remember there being anything of the sort. I saw a bunch of footage from ANW used in fluff pieces, presumably to show that certain competitors have international notoriety, but I don't remember seeing anything that was blatantly pro-ANW. Just footage showing that the USA has their own spinoff show which certain All-Stars and New Stars visited/participated in...the same way they kept showing footage from SASUKE Malaysia during tournament 27. What's the big difference? Just the fact that we (and apparently a huge segment of the Japanese audience) vehemently dislike ANW? This isn't the only show of its kind anymore...when did that become such a terrible thing?
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Post by arsenette on Jul 5, 2016 8:09:34 GMT -5
I'm beginning to get a little confused now--there were ANW commercials DURING the show? As in to say, there were advertisements for American Ninja Warrior, the show that only airs in the USA, during the SASUKE broadcast? Maybe I was just sleepy and I blinked through every one of them, but I don't exactly remember there being anything of the sort. I saw a bunch of footage from ANW used in fluff pieces, presumably to show that certain competitors have international notoriety, but I don't remember seeing anything that was blatantly pro-ANW. Just footage showing that the USA has their own spinoff show which certain All-Stars and New Stars visited/participated in...the same way they kept showing footage from SASUKE Malaysia during tournament 27. What's the big difference? Just the fact that we (and apparently a huge segment of the Japanese audience) vehemently dislike ANW? I don't think you are actually reading what it is that is bothering the Japanese audience. You are seeing it from the prism of the Western audience. You are steeped in ANW land (regardless if you like it or not). That is not the case in Japan. It is startling to be assaulted with ANW DURING the Sasuke broadcast. I actually added up the ANW footage and it equated to more minutes than all 3 All-Star footage combined... Japan doesn't care about ANW. They see it as receiving the message that THIS is the direction that Sasuke is taking during the renewal. They sacrificed a Japanese competitor (Sato Jun) and Nagano's retirement to push that agenda. They are not happy. Our feelings on it are irrelevant. This is the core of the argument in Japan and why they want Inui's head on a stick. |
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Post by dudesky1000 on Jul 5, 2016 8:29:25 GMT -5
I'm beginning to get a little confused now--there were ANW commercials DURING the show? As in to say, there were advertisements for American Ninja Warrior, the show that only airs in the USA, during the SASUKE broadcast? Maybe I was just sleepy and I blinked through every one of them, but I don't exactly remember there being anything of the sort. I saw a bunch of footage from ANW used in fluff pieces, presumably to show that certain competitors have international notoriety, but I don't remember seeing anything that was blatantly pro-ANW. Just footage showing that the USA has their own spinoff show which certain All-Stars and New Stars visited/participated in...the same way they kept showing footage from SASUKE Malaysia during tournament 27. What's the big difference? Just the fact that we (and apparently a huge segment of the Japanese audience) vehemently dislike ANW? I don't think you are actually reading what it is that is bothering the Japanese audience. You are seeing it from the prism of the Western audience. You are steeped in ANW land (regardless if you like it or not). That is not the case in Japan. It is startling to be assaulted with ANW DURING the Sasuke broadcast. I actually added up the ANW footage and it equated to more minutes than all 3 All-Star footage combined... Japan doesn't care about ANW. They see it as receiving the message that THIS is the direction that Sasuke is taking during the renewal. They sacrificed a Japanese competitor (Sato Jun) and Nagano's retirement to push that agenda. They are not happy. Our feelings on it are irrelevant. This is the core of the argument in Japan and why they want Inui's head on a stick. Interesting. I didn't realize the domestic audience felt so strongly about ANW. I can definitely see why though, the show is an absolute political and organizational mess, lol. I gave up on it 2 years ago, I didn't even watch the season with Geoff and Isaac. I haven't been reading many of the comments on twitter--google translate tragedies  Anyway, I am sure you are right Arsenette, I was just sharing thoughts as someone who's been on the sidelines, kind of removed from what's going on with SASUKE and ANW. For me for some reason, it didn't seem like it was being shoved down our throats, just that they were cashing in on some aesthetically cool looking footage to show some competitor's international prestige. But if all the ANW stuff really does add up to more than the All-Stars screen time combined (and you can probably combine all of Sato's digests in there as well), that's pretty lame. |
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Post by arsenette on Jul 5, 2016 8:36:50 GMT -5
I don't think you are actually reading what it is that is bothering the Japanese audience. You are seeing it from the prism of the Western audience. You are steeped in ANW land (regardless if you like it or not). That is not the case in Japan. It is startling to be assaulted with ANW DURING the Sasuke broadcast. I actually added up the ANW footage and it equated to more minutes than all 3 All-Star footage combined... Japan doesn't care about ANW. They see it as receiving the message that THIS is the direction that Sasuke is taking during the renewal. They sacrificed a Japanese competitor (Sato Jun) and Nagano's retirement to push that agenda. They are not happy. Our feelings on it are irrelevant. This is the core of the argument in Japan and why they want Inui's head on a stick. Interesting. I didn't realize the domestic audience felt so strongly about ANW. I can definitely see why though, the show is an absolute political and organizational mess, lol. I gave up on it 2 years ago, I didn't even watch the season with Geoff and Isaac. I haven't been reading many of the comments on twitter--google translate tragedies Anyway, I am sure you are right Arsenette, I was just sharing thoughts as someone who's been on the sidelines, kind of removed from what's going on with SASUKE and ANW. For me for some reason, it didn't seem like it was being shoved down our throats, just that they were cashing in on some aesthetically cool looking footage to show some competitor's international prestige. But if all the ANW stuff really does add up to more than the All-Stars screen time combined (and you can probably combine all of Sato's digests in there as well), that's pretty lame. Well to be fair Japan hasn't seen ANW. They only teased the Japanese representing Japan in USA vs. World a couple years ago. I find it funny that Ryo's run ONLY showed that because he failed miserably in Japan in 31. It's like "hey lemme distract you he's pretty pimp in the USA".. the exact same year Japan wasn't invited back to USA vs. World this year. The timing is unfortunate... But our eyes are used to seeing that. It's jarring when you don't know (or care) about some foreign spin off (since there are a dozen of them now) and it now invades the domestic show. Be different if it was serving as an ad for upcoming airings in Japan. However, it isn't so it was really out of place. All the Shin Sedai, both Americans and Nagano (since they cut Shingo and Takeda) all had ANW centric fluff pieces. They should have concentrated on their recent training and thoughts about Sasuke. The message was pretty blatant for someone who just watches Sasuke yearly without any background information. Sasuke is dead here in Japan and everyone else around the world does it better. You can imagine why they got angry about that. Even Jun was probably a bad idea since he spent the last 5 years in England. LOL |
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Post by candh on Jul 5, 2016 9:22:17 GMT -5
Rumor is that (it is only anonymous comment in some boards so please take this with a huge grain of salt) Jun Sato was all digested because he spoilered in twitter that no one went to the Final this year? The producer and Inui were very hesitant to talk about Sato in the Niconico livestream. BTW that vipper-trendy.net "article" is copy paste of what is written in an anonymous board and it has zero credibility.
While I don't agree with the editing and am sour about outright cut of so many competitors, the article that calls out SSK 32 as "the worst Sasuke ever, everybody wants to cancel it now" is way over the top and it is just an opinion piece from a yellow paper. Sasuke has always been criticized in Japan since the first one and I think Sasuke getting criticized again is a sign that the show is gathering more attention than 28/29 which weren't even recognized among mainstream viewers.
Also I fear this could coming out as an insult (not intended at all) but I understand that to get higher ratings in Japan they are feeling a need to appeal to hosewives and girls who is undeniably dominating the Japanese television audience, and majority of them care much more about celebs and affairs of competitors they can attach themselves into (such as family, girlfriend and love affairs, personal life etc) than Sasuke as a pure sport. Even in twitter stream and the Niconico livestream about half of responses I think were from women who talks about how cute the idol guy and even Wreathman are etc! (yeah, he is adorable).
I mean having more diverse audience is definitely good, but it is giving a huge side effect on editing; those doesn't have love affairs but so athletic can't even get an airtime it seems. I am a Japanese man and I don't even have a TV in my room for like 10 years ._.
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Post by thatoneuser on Jul 5, 2016 9:39:01 GMT -5
A thought: Could the over-saturation of ANW be seen as a way to get SASUKE involved in the American market again? Consider that Japan is now completely un-represented in the American market (Ninja Warrior being cancelled after 27, Team Latin America instead of Team Japan). The edited-down G4 broadcasts were probably printing cash for TBS and that money is dried up now unless the Challenge broadcasts of 28-30 are being sold internationally.
I realize this is most likely wrong but I think it's worth mentioning. It seems like the drastic change in politics this year both in Japan and America can't be a coincidence.
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Post by arsenette on Jul 5, 2016 10:35:07 GMT -5
A thought: Could the over-saturation of ANW be seen as a way to get SASUKE involved in the American market again? Consider that Japan is now completely un-represented in the American market (Ninja Warrior being cancelled after 27, Team Latin America instead of Team Japan). The edited-down G4 broadcasts were probably printing cash for TBS and that money is dried up now unless the Challenge broadcasts of 28-30 are being sold internationally. I realize this is most likely wrong but I think it's worth mentioning. It seems like the drastic change in politics this year both in Japan and America can't be a coincidence. No the editing was done before they found out NBC wasn't going to invite them to USA vs. World. The arrangement with NBC to get Geoff (and eventually Brent and Kacy) were new arrangements that has a lot of political strings attached. This is all new for Inui who didn't have to deal with that crap until now. I'm sure he also had more to deal with the celeb management companies since the money dried up and there were more favors that had to be pulled to get the show on the air. The whole Jun thing is complicated since he has a reputation... Over the past 24 hours I've managed to keep getting more on that. It is not hostile but they have no attachment to him and he seems to be fine to be on the outside. I've heard the rumor on Jun's break of NDA as well but attached to "well it's not surprising" and that was the end of that conversation. All I know is that Inui has been going out of his way to try to assure everyone that they will fix the show in time for the 20th Anniversary next year. With the calls to cancel the show bombarding him specifically on twitter after the show aired.. he's been on damage control trying to put out the fires. TBS twitter has also tried to spin it going that they had enough for "one more" and hyping the 20th anniversary. So unless they right the ship and calm everyone down.. Next year is the last Sasuke. |
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Post by dudesky1000 on Jul 5, 2016 10:55:36 GMT -5
Well, considering we've been subconsciously living under a 'next one will be the last one' mindset since 2010 or so, it's a relief to hear that they'll at least make an attempt to fix things and that a 20th year anniversary tournament actually means something to them.
Unfortunately, I think regardless of the editing, the next tournament will live or die by its results. If all the home favorites fail early again, the show is over. Another SASUKE 26 will be the end, no matter how good the editing is.
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Post by candh on Jul 5, 2016 11:09:13 GMT -5
I think the most factors criticized among the Japanese viewers are:
1) Unfair bad conditions in 1st and 3rd (I think this is the biggest thing and is what ignited all the flak for SSK 32 on internet)
2) Having too many talentos and guests babbling too long and doing advertisement since 28 - also their comments in the show about rain apparently plucked some nerves
3) Triple digesting Jun Sato (and Shim)
Some of course criticized digesting Takeda and Yamamoto, but there are also many comments that criticizing All-stars themselves as they get older (yes, some of Japanese audiences are kind of harsh about competitors themselves - most notably Urushihara has constantly been bashed as well). The reaction is mixed.
Unfortunately, I am almost 100% sure that talentos and guests are not going to go away the next year, as the current Japanese major broadcasters like TBS are so obsessed with having forced comedians and celebs. For not showing anyone but celeb competitors, Yamada who adds "funny factor", Americans and those have "romantic" affairs and stuff - I think it is fixable, but the current mainstream audience doesn't seem caring too much except Jun Sato triple digested.
Inui has been very vocal about he wants SASUKE as a variety show and he will do anything to keep the show alive. While he seems to be one of the last passionate person in the Japanese TV industry who really cares (there are many producers who outrightly do fake, staged, bogus shows - TBS just caught the last week that they photoshopped and "erased" a guest from the quiz show as if he lost earlier and made as if some hyped celeb "won" the game. This happens every now and then from documentary to game show to news commentary and TV industry guys in Japan are in fact very hated. I and many sane people don't watch TV shows anymore) I do think that in 32 he went way, way too far, and I frankly feel like long-time fans and the foundational concept of "an olympics for no-name people" are alienated. The contrast is especially stark after that fantastic 31.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2016 11:13:15 GMT -5
If next year is the last SASUKE, let's hope it goes out with a bang...just like Takeshi's Castle back in 1990.
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Post by arsenette on Jul 5, 2016 11:28:55 GMT -5
The contrast is especially stark after that fantastic 31. Exactly! In addition in contrast to what actually happened! We already know that Darvish is coming back and he mentioned he wants revenge. There was a public fight about wanting a redo (especially after Kong failed and Drew had to cross slider the Tie Fighter) but we know the result of that. It was a mistake in my opinion and his fans seemed to agree so you have that component as well. Thanks for the updates also on the other side with the synopsis of the more vocal complains. And yeah.. it's 2ch. It's harsh as hell. LOL One thing I have noticed though is that there isn't any blowback on the competitors themselves (especially the Americans) other than envy at their skill. So that is good news. TBS just has to stop pimping another show and they will be fine. |
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Post by Philip on Jul 5, 2016 11:44:33 GMT -5
It's frustrating that people want it to be CANCELLED instead of calling on TBS to improve things...
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Post by arsenette on Jul 5, 2016 12:42:22 GMT -5
It's frustrating that people want it to be CANCELLED instead of calling on TBS to improve things... Well considering that they promised to fix the situation last year and they profusely apologized and went in the OPPOSITE direction.. they have a point. Also, the ratings haven't been raising which means that people have not been happy to begin along with the All-Stars all but gone they see there's no point. IMO obviously. |
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