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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on May 25, 2016 7:14:00 GMT -5
Don't worry. She could fall on the first part of the first obstacle and still get a wildcard to Vegas. Or as I like to call them, Feminist Spots. Feminism is a good thing though. I consider them "high-profile" spots, even if they do sometimes get disproportionately dished out to the female competitors.
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Post by thatoneuser on May 25, 2016 9:55:08 GMT -5
Don't worry. She could fall on the first part of the first obstacle and still get a wildcard to Vegas. Or as I like to call them, Feminist Spots. Remember our whole "sexism is stupid" chat? Yeah, that applies here too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 10:28:52 GMT -5
Or as I like to call them, Feminist Spots. Remember our whole "sexism is stupid" chat? Yeah, that applies here too. Correct, there are some men who deserve a place more than others, heck I'd give a Wildcard to elephant52 over Kacy. (Kacy Count: who cares?)
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Post by marsllama on May 25, 2016 10:57:24 GMT -5
Feminism is a good thing only as long as it promotes equality. Equal pay, equal rights, equal respect, equal dignity. These things are important, ANW is a game show. On ANW, you often hear women say that they want to show other women that they can compete with the guys. In this context, wouldn't treating both genders equally be fairer? I always thought it was a little patronising giving a certain amount of spots to women regardless of ability. There are more women than ever who can genuinely compete now, which is great- I really mean that. But if feminism is about equality of sexes, which I belive it should be, then this is not the answer in my opinion.
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Post by cole77000 on May 25, 2016 11:57:08 GMT -5
Oh man. Combining a touchy Sasukemaniac topic with a general touchy topic? We are going into dangerous territory.
My heavily-simplified opinion is that it's fine to give a bunch of women wildcard spots due to the course generally favoring skills that men tend to excel at due to biological differences such as upper body strength, wingspan, or height.
Though this statement then opens up more discussions to be had somewhere not here.
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on May 25, 2016 12:36:25 GMT -5
My two cents is this:
Despite the show doing good in that it promotes female athletes and "course equality", giving all wildcard spots to women is simply unfair. It artificially inflates the proportion of women in Vegas, giving NBC an excuse not to actively seek out more new women athletes and to actually work towards a strong female showing. Not to mention it is unfair to the men AND women who may have progressed deep into the course and just missed out on the top 15, yet who get shafted by women who generally (last season) failed the first 1-3 obstacles and didn't even make City Finals.
Is it positive discrimination? Yes. But is it fair or equal? No. Women should earn their way to Vegas like men, something they have proved they can do in the past, and by handing out wildcard spots left and right, the efforts of women successful on the course are invalidated. You can't have it both ways. You can either push the "women are just as good as men on the course" idea by further working towards a strong female showing and not handing out free passes, or you can have a false, plastic "strong female showing" by just inviting tons of women to Vegas. Right now, the status of women on the show is stagnant, not getting better.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 25, 2016 12:41:34 GMT -5
They should only give Wildcards to the best people who missed out on an automatic spot in Vegas. PERIOD.
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Post by marsllama on May 25, 2016 12:57:17 GMT -5
I'm not convinced watching 14/16 (something like that) women fail on the first few obstacles in Vegas does much good for gender equality anyway. However, I understand why it is important for ratings that NBC represents both genders. That said, one of the things at the top of my wishlist for this season is for a woman to clear Stage 1.
Back to the subject of Kacy: In my view, she isn't "among the competition's best". She isn't even the best female athlete. I rank her behind Jessie and Meghan, and on par with Michelle Warnky.
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Post by cole77000 on May 25, 2016 13:24:52 GMT -5
My two cents is this: 1. It artificially inflates the proportion of women in Vegas, giving NBC an excuse not to actively seek out more new women athletes and to actually work towards a strong female showing. 2. Women should earn their way to Vegas like men, something they have proved they can do in the past... 3. Right now, the status of women on the show is stagnant, not getting better. I really don't think this is the place for this discussion but I do want to say that I disagree with these 3 bits. 1. Any statements about NBC's motives on casting objectives is complete conjecture. 2. Only two women have ever earned non wildcard spots thus far. Yes it's been proven it is possible, but it's a quite a reach to say that the course doesn't inherently favor a male body build. You can't use the statistical outliers to represent the whole. 3. There currently is not a large enough sample size existing to back up this statement.
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Post by GlobalNinjaFan on May 25, 2016 13:54:35 GMT -5
My two cents is this: 1. It artificially inflates the proportion of women in Vegas, giving NBC an excuse not to actively seek out more new women athletes and to actually work towards a strong female showing. 2. Women should earn their way to Vegas like men, something they have proved they can do in the past... 3. Right now, the status of women on the show is stagnant, not getting better. I really don't think this is the place for this discussion but I do want to say that I disagree with these 3 bits. 1. Any statements about NBC's motives on casting objectives is complete conjecture. 2. Only two women have ever earned non wildcard spots thus far. Yes it's been proven it is possible, but it's a quite a reach to say that the course doesn't inherently favor a male body build. You can't use the statistical outliers to represent the whole. 3. There currently is not a large enough sample size existing to back up this statement. Here is my response: 1) Whilst you are right, as of now NBC has no motivation to invite more women. Kacy and the women they already have are ratings juggernauts, and since especially Kacy receives a big chunk of the broadcast, there is currently no reason for NBC to want more than one "elite woman". From a corporate standpoint, Kacy is enough for them, and it is pointless to search for the next Kacy due to the reasons stated above. 2) Whilst the course does inherently favour a male body, to say the strength, speed, endurance etc... necessary to complete the course is also inherently male is a real stretch. It doesn't matter how the women compare to the men, as we know the skills to complete the course are within their grasp. Ninja Warrior is full of elite athletes, and there are many more women who could complete the city courses out there. 3) To retort against your statement that the sample size is small and I am using the statistical outliers, that point is moot considering women are already a small proportion of total competitors in QUALIFYING. The simple fact is that if the course was theoretically 50/50 men and women, it is logical to conclude there would be more "outliers" and more total Vegas-worthy runs on a whole. More women equals a greater chance a woman will clear.
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Post by TCM on May 25, 2016 17:48:14 GMT -5
If the course isn't made so that it's probable for everyone of whatever gender someone who gets to run identifies as, then that's where trouble comes in.
But regardless of all that, if you want to discuss this, do so in a way that doesn't hijack a thread that takes it wildly off-topic. The Atlanta regional is over a month old.
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DonalM
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Post by DonalM on May 25, 2016 18:12:14 GMT -5
Whilst you are right, as of now NBC has no motivation to invite more women. Jesse LaBreck tore up the National Ninja League, and has the potential to be the first woman to ever clear Stage 1, and NBC invited her for this season.
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Anshin
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Post by Anshin on May 25, 2016 23:04:48 GMT -5
But regardless of all that, if you want to discuss this, do so in a way that doesn't hijack a thread that takes it wildly off-topic. The Atlanta regional is over a month old.
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Post by TCM on Jun 8, 2016 9:15:32 GMT -5
Since the ATL qualifier is tonight, I'm opening up the thread back in case no one is around to do so towards airtime. ^ That post above me still applies, though.
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Post by marsllama on Jun 8, 2016 11:41:46 GMT -5
Since the ATL qualifier is tonight, I'm opening up the thread back in case no one is around to do so towards airtime. ^ That post above me still applies, though. Thanks for reopening the thread. I may make a new one later where we can discuss the female competitor issue- if there is one- all in one place. Some great competitors tonight, and a pretty good course too. I likely can't watch it for a few more days because it's never available online straight away and I live in the UK. Not sure if I should stay off this forum until then to avoid spoiling results for myself, does anyone else do this?
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tgf2k
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Post by tgf2k on Jun 8, 2016 12:24:48 GMT -5
Honestly? I thought the course sucked compared to the other regions. Everyone else had some funky new obstacles that changed required muscle groups and we got the pipe fitter, which only resulted in more blood loss from people shredding their forearms on the tops of the pipes than I can remember.
The block run was cool, I guess. Luis Moco did it first, though.
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Post by ekkerb11 on Jun 8, 2016 12:45:34 GMT -5
Honestly? I thought the course sucked compared to the other regions. Everyone else had some funky new obstacles that changed required muscle groups and we got the pipe fitter, which only resulted in more blood loss from people shredding their forearms on the tops of the pipes than I can remember. The block run was cool, I guess. Luis Moco did it first, though. What about the clacker? That looks cool.
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DonalM
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Post by DonalM on Jun 8, 2016 17:12:10 GMT -5
Since the ATL qualifier is tonight, I'm opening up the thread back in case no one is around to do so towards airtime. ^ That post above me still applies, though. Thanks for reopening the thread. I may make a new one later where we can discuss the female competitor issue- if there is one- all in one place. Some great competitors tonight, and a pretty good course too. I likely can't watch it for a few more days because it's never available online straight away and I live in the UK. Not sure if I should stay off this forum until then to avoid spoiling results for myself, does anyone else do this? Just don't open up spoilers.
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Post by thatoneuser on Jun 8, 2016 20:52:18 GMT -5
COW MAN. Caleb Watson is legit.
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Jun 8, 2016 20:56:54 GMT -5
RATS! I was hoping for a Drew fluff piece about Japan. Of course not. XD
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