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Post by blah123 on Sept 17, 2015 14:29:25 GMT -5
No one should feel obligated to split their earnings when the burden falls on the tournament organizers. Geoff has a wonderful attitude rising above it all and just saying that he was happy for what he could control - his own performance. I agree with others that Isaac shouldn't be faulted either since this was never about the competitors but about the organization of the event. They even admitted they did a mistake and a by-law that was in the contract since ANW1 came back to bite them because they lacked faith on the development of their own athletes. To be fair to NBC, they have been consistent with "fastest" rule from the beginning despite what Sasuke fans' displeasure. The problem I see is that they CAN fix this since it IS a TV show. They can easily do something for Geoff (cash prize or even physical item like a car). They can do it. They just won't and that's my problem. No one else but the organizers should have to pony up the cash: Not any other competitor, not even Matt Iseman. None control the show, they are just viewers of the show. I'm happy though that the for the most part people see Geoff (rightfully) as co-champion of ANW and the FIRST American Ninja Warrior. People have to literally be blind to not have seen that. I'm more worried about fans attacking each other over a mistake that corporate did. I do blame NBC. They are the ones that wrote the contract; the same contract that has the by-line of being able to alter things to fit their discretion. It won't hurt Isaac to have someone else gain a financial windfall for the exact same achievement so by that alone NBC could have been hailed as a hero to use that by-line to get something for Geoff. I still contend that there is time to do so. They haven't announced when vs. World is and to my knowledge both Geoff and Isaac where there. So, they can prerecord something and add that to that airing. Even if it's a small blurb in the beginning where Geoff receives something (even if it's name recognition) and then air the rest of the prerecorded competition. NBC has used post production stuff all the time, including looping voiceover to alter results. They can do it for a benefit here. They just don't want to. It's within their legal right to do so. For future they can just alter one thing with the fastest rule. They can abolish that rule ONLY for the final. That way this kind of thing won't happen again. Or, if they still want fastest rule, have runner up prize money for them. It's inconceivable for me to think that NBC thought it was acceptable to ask an athlete to complete their ridiculous course and receive absolutely nothing. No one is asking to strip Isaac of his feat, they are only demanding that Geoff be compensated with SOMETHING for achieving the exact same feat. For anyone that hasn't realized it yet, this is just yet another manifestation of how ANW is not a sport, but a TV show. We've seen this many times before. NBC will fabricate results, treat competitors like cattle, botch course construction, shove Kacy down our throats, show fluff in place of runs, etc., etc., etc.. Why? Because they can, and they're a for-profit company. As long as they get their ratings, and are within their legal limits, that's all they care about. Any sort of "honorable" things they do beyond what is absolutely necessary can be seen as some sort of PR move (which in theory increases viewership). And why should they change? Just look at the exponential growth in popularity the show has undergone in 7 seasons. This is how a capitalist society works. I'm not saying we shouldn't voice our opinions to try to persuade NBC to do what we believe is "right". I'm saying that until Sasuke / Ninja Warrior becomes an actual sport, and not a TV show, these things will keep coming up, just in different manifestations. And we shouldn't act surprised every time.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Sept 17, 2015 14:36:23 GMT -5
For anyone that hasn't realized it yet, this is just yet another manifestation of how ANW is not a sport, but a TV show. We've seen this many times before. NBC will fabricate results, treat competitors like cattle, botch course construction, shove Kacy down our throats, show fluff in place of runs, etc., etc., etc.. Why? Because they can, and they're a for-profit company. As long as they get their ratings, and are within their legal limits, that's all they care about. Any sort of "honorable" things they do beyond what is absolutely necessary can be seen as some sort of PR move (which in theory increases viewership). And why should they change? Just look at the exponential growth in popularity the show has undergone in 7 seasons. This is how a capitalist society works. I'm not saying we shouldn't voice our opinions to try to persuade NBC to do what we believe is "right". I'm saying that until Sasuke / Ninja Warrior becomes an actual sport, and not a TV show, these things will keep coming up, just in different manifestations. And we shouldn't act surprised every time. That's my point. It's a TV show and because it is such they need to change. We wouldn't be having this discussion if social media didn't blow up the way it did. You have major national news organizations that went out of their way to explain the stupidity of their reward system. If the average viewer no longer trusts that someone will be accurately rewarded then why would they bother? Sponsors think of that. They don't only look at the rating (which was identical to other years btw.. they haven't grown - they have plateaued - the only difference is that the other shows caved around them with the exception of Monday's show that lost to a show that had twice the viewership and won the demo) they also look at the reputation of the show. If there is a controversy the first people to jump ship are the advertisers since they have to save face. So if the furor is/was big enough to do SOMETHING, they may do SOMETHING. It's been done before and it can happen again. First rule in business is that the customer is always right. If the customer doesn't like the product, they go elsewhere. Sponsors respond to what is going to hit their wallet. It's not about being surprised (I'm not which is why I mentioned that the "rule" was in for 7 years in every NDA they have ever produced), it's about realizing the trend and showing how they can reverse the hate tide that is flowing right now.
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Post by higeboshi on Sept 17, 2015 16:23:27 GMT -5
They can easily do something for Geoff (cash prize or even physical item like a car). Well, Geoff already has a car, but it's seen better days: Attachment Deleted
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gt4dom
Jessie Graff
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Post by gt4dom on Sept 17, 2015 17:06:50 GMT -5
For anyone that hasn't realized it yet, this is just yet another manifestation of how ANW is not a sport, but a TV show. We've seen this many times before. NBC will fabricate results, treat competitors like cattle, botch course construction, shove Kacy down our throats, show fluff in place of runs, etc., etc., etc.. Why? Because they can, and they're a for-profit company. As long as they get their ratings, and are within their legal limits, that's all they care about. Any sort of "honorable" things they do beyond what is absolutely necessary can be seen as some sort of PR move (which in theory increases viewership). And why should they change? Just look at the exponential growth in popularity the show has undergone in 7 seasons. This is how a capitalist society works. I'm not saying we shouldn't voice our opinions to try to persuade NBC to do what we believe is "right". I'm saying that until Sasuke / Ninja Warrior becomes an actual sport, and not a TV show, these things will keep coming up, just in different manifestations. And we shouldn't act surprised every time. That's my point. It's a TV show and because it is such they need to change. We wouldn't be having this discussion if social media didn't blow up the way it did. You have major national news organizations that went out of their way to explain the stupidity of their reward system. If the average viewer no longer trusts that someone will be accurately rewarded then why would they bother? Sponsors think of that. They don't only look at the rating (which was identical to other years btw.. they haven't grown - they have plateaued - the only difference is that the other shows caved around them with the exception of Monday's show that lost to a show that had twice the viewership and won the demo) they also look at the reputation of the show. If there is a controversy the first people to jump ship are the advertisers since they have to save face. So if the furor is/was big enough to do SOMETHING, they may do SOMETHING. It's been done before and it can happen again. First rule in business is that the customer is always right. If the customer doesn't like the product, they go elsewhere. Sponsors respond to what is going to hit their wallet. It's not about being surprised (I'm not which is why I mentioned that the "rule" was in for 7 years in every NDA they have ever produced), it's about realizing the trend and showing how they can reverse the hate tide that is flowing right now. Well you know every thread in SMF must talk about WWE? Soooo basically WWE which runs at the same time and day as ANW and has a similar fanbase is suffering from a fall in viewership compared to last year of roughly 15-20%, so ANW did really well to maintain the same ratings as last year. To say that it is very unlikely we will get a 3rd series of NW:UK, to have 7 seasons of almost constant increasing ratings is a pretty good job. And yea it's in NBC's best interests to give Geoff something, bad publicity on a popular programme can have a negative effect on ad revenue by up to 40% which for a primetime NBC programme would be a huge loss, so unless they can somehow brainwash the audience I can see them not being as successful financially in S8 compared to S7. Especially as they are probably gonna put in some beastly obstacles to make sure this doesn't happen again which could further put off people
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Post by RiderLeangle on Sept 17, 2015 18:59:37 GMT -5
Well you know every thread in SMF must talk about WWE? Soooo basically WWE which runs at the same time and day as ANW and has a similar fanbase is suffering from a fall in viewership compared to last year of roughly 15-20%, so ANW did really well to maintain the same ratings as last year. Plot twist: ANW is what's taking away the viewership from RAW (This was meant as a joke but is somewhat plausible, I know it's true in the case of some viewers, myself included)
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Post by tbowman on Sept 17, 2015 19:22:20 GMT -5
No one should feel obligated to split their earnings when the burden falls on the tournament organizers. Geoff has a wonderful attitude rising above it all and just saying that he was happy for what he could control - his own performance. I agree with others that Isaac shouldn't be faulted either since this was never about the competitors but about the organization of the event. They even admitted they did a mistake and a by-law that was in the contract since ANW1 came back to bite them because they lacked faith on the development of their own athletes. To be fair to NBC, they have been consistent with "fastest" rule from the beginning despite what Sasuke fans' displeasure. The problem I see is that they CAN fix this since it IS a TV show. They can easily do something for Geoff (cash prize or even physical item like a car). They can do it. They just won't and that's my problem. No one else but the organizers should have to pony up the cash: Not any other competitor, not even Matt Iseman. None control the show, they are just viewers of the show. I'm happy though that the for the most part people see Geoff (rightfully) as co-champion of ANW and the FIRST American Ninja Warrior. People have to literally be blind to not have seen that. I'm more worried about fans attacking each other over a mistake that corporate did. I do blame NBC. They are the ones that wrote the contract; the same contract that has the by-line of being able to alter things to fit their discretion. It won't hurt Isaac to have someone else gain a financial windfall for the exact same achievement so by that alone NBC could have been hailed as a hero to use that by-line to get something for Geoff. I still contend that there is time to do so. They haven't announced when vs. World is and to my knowledge both Geoff and Isaac where there. So, they can prerecord something and add that to that airing. Even if it's a small blurb in the beginning where Geoff receives something (even if it's name recognition) and then air the rest of the prerecorded competition. NBC has used post production stuff all the time, including looping voiceover to alter results. They can do it for a benefit here. They just don't want to. It's within their legal right to do so. For future they can just alter one thing with the fastest rule. They can abolish that rule ONLY for the final. That way this kind of thing won't happen again. Or, if they still want fastest rule, have runner up prize money for them. It's inconceivable for me to think that NBC thought it was acceptable to ask an athlete to complete their ridiculous course and receive absolutely nothing. No one is asking to strip Isaac of his feat, they are only demanding that Geoff be compensated with SOMETHING for achieving the exact same feat. I was really, really, really hoping to join this discussion today and find out that NBC had awarded runner-up prize money to Geoff. It is mind numbingly offensive to Geoff and every viewer that Geoff accomplished every criteria requested of him, including climbing that rope under the time limit, and was denied a reward of any kind - no reward money, not even the title of American Ninja Warrior. How is that possible? As others have said, ANW is a TV show as much as it is a competition. They make up stuff as they go along. But being a TV show they will responsive to the competitors and fans. I hope there is enough of an outcry and venom directed towards NBC to motivate them to reconsider their position. I will certainly reconsider whether I want to invest so much time watching what turned out in the end to be a bit of a farce. And if was a competitor I would reconsider whether the investment of time is worth it considering what happened to Geoff. I had completely contradictory emotions watching that final episode - happiness that someone finally beat the course (after seven long seasons) and agitation (even anger) at how Geoff was treated. It was disappointing to feel the second emotion following what was one of the most compelling athletic accomplishments I've ever witnessed.
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Sept 17, 2015 19:25:18 GMT -5
*sigh* I've given up trying to reason with NBC and are just quietly waiting for news on USA vs the World. I need some Japanese guys to save me at this point. I will admit I did like the course this year... O.O
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Post by peterpack on Sept 17, 2015 20:18:07 GMT -5
Well said Arsenette a million dollars for someone like issac (who by all accounts lives very humbly) is a never has to work again type amount NBC doesn;t need to give Geoff a million, just 150-200K, enough to make a signficant benefit to Geoff's life and an amount which NBC won't miss at all NBC would get huge props from fans, competitors and social media alike for doing such a thing.
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Post by peterpack on Sept 17, 2015 20:30:24 GMT -5
Geoff, the way you conducted yourself, genuinely congratulated Issac and showed no sign of disappointment yourself is a credit to you and your family.
For next year i think NBC might try to make the stages a bit less climber centric. There definitely needs to be some obstacles which test other attributes than upper body strength to weight ratio.
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Post by lostinube on Sept 17, 2015 23:13:01 GMT -5
Of course the USA Network is owned by NBCUniversal so ANW siphoning WWE ratings is probably not a big deal. WWE ratings would be better if RAW didn't feel like such a chore to watch but that's for another thread.
At the very least, NBC should also have Geoff doing promotional stuff along with Isaac just to cover their bases since not every reality show star was the big breakout, sometimes the runner-ups and also-rans went on to bigger careers. Like...co-hosts of RAW? Haha. Or perhaps Isaac will be found having done PEDs/overinflated his shoes/posed naked or something that forces NBC to wipe him from history.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Sept 17, 2015 23:25:29 GMT -5
I'm still happy that Isaac went on record saying he wanted to compete in Sasuke. Considering how TBS wants Sasuke gone.. this couldn't have been a good announcement. LOL I'm sure NBC wasn't happy with it either.
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Post by evan on Sept 18, 2015 2:12:55 GMT -5
For next year i think NBC might try to make the stages a bit less climber centric. There definitely needs to be some obstacles which test other attributes than upper body strength to weight ratio. But ANW and Sasuke have always been upper body/grip centric.
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Post by evan on Sept 18, 2015 2:27:03 GMT -5
For anyone that hasn't realized it yet, this is just yet another manifestation of how ANW is not a sport, but a TV show. We've seen this many times before. NBC will fabricate results, treat competitors like cattle, botch course construction, shove Kacy down our throats, show fluff in place of runs, etc., etc., etc.. Why? Because they can, and they're a for-profit company. As long as they get their ratings, and are within their legal limits, that's all they care about. Any sort of "honorable" things they do beyond what is absolutely necessary can be seen as some sort of PR move (which in theory increases viewership). And why should they change? Just look at the exponential growth in popularity the show has undergone in 7 seasons. This is how a capitalist society works. I'm not saying we shouldn't voice our opinions to try to persuade NBC to do what we believe is "right". I'm saying that until Sasuke / Ninja Warrior becomes an actual sport, and not a TV show, these things will keep coming up, just in different manifestations. And we shouldn't act surprised every time. you are right, I think everyone realizes that it's more of a tv show, and I think the producers are the first to admit this, but if it was just a sport perhaps very few would have known about it and there would have been less incentive for people to try it out. So being a tv show can be good and bad at the same time.
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Post by lhii789 on Sept 18, 2015 13:40:03 GMT -5
Quick question. Does Geoff and Isaac have to re-qualify in Regionals (Qualifying and Final) for Season 8 or are they getting a free-pass to Vegas? Given NBC track-records, unfortunately, it would be former; which would be very frustrating since they are the champs! At the very least, they should deserve life-time pass to get into Regionals, instead of resorting walk-on.
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Post by brockriebe6 on Sept 18, 2015 15:27:06 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that they will be on the show for as many seasons as they apply for. Meaning they will always be competing on the show until they decide to quit.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Sept 18, 2015 15:47:26 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that they will be on the show for as many seasons as they apply for. Meaning they will always be competing on the show until they decide to quit. I think the question is if they have to go through regionals or just automatically get wildcarded to vegas without even being in qualifying or city finals, I don't see any reason why NBC would just send them straight to vegas considering it makes for better TV about the returning champions coming back to prove themselves and have to get through the same courses everyone else does
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Post by brockriebe6 on Sept 18, 2015 15:53:53 GMT -5
I think it's safe to say that they will be on the show for as many seasons as they apply for. Meaning they will always be competing on the show until they decide to quit. I think the question is if they have to go through regionals or just automatically get wildcarded to vegas without even being in qualifying or city finals, I don't see any reason why NBC would just send them straight to vegas considering it makes for better TV about the returning champions coming back to prove themselves and have to get through the same courses everyone else does I agree I think they'll definitely have to go through regionals just like everyone else. I just was saying they they will always have the option to compete if they want too.
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Post by Geoffnotjeff on Sept 18, 2015 17:11:50 GMT -5
Isaac came out today in an interview stating that he is the first American ninja warrior, and winner, and that he thinks only he deserves any title... Classy. My feelings shifted a bit towards him after reading this.
Britten also proposed an alternative, inspired by the Japanese show "Sasuke," on which "American Ninja Warrior" is based.
"In Japan, if two people beat the final stage they consider them co-champions and they get an equal prize, but here in America we have to have a winner."
However, Caldiero does not think there is anything to dispute.
"There is no distinction, it’s the same title," Caldiero told IBT. "There are pictures of me holding the trophy that says I’m the first American Ninja Warrior. I guess they are trying to give him a moment too but as far as the rules go, there is one title. It’s an all or nothing deal."
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Post by lhii789 on Sept 18, 2015 17:14:58 GMT -5
Maybe I should post that topic in separate thread. Edit: Just made one. sasukemaniac.proboards.com/thread/5858/geoff-isaac-future-tournamentsWhile ANW7 is technically 7th in ANW franchise (11th if you count from American Ninja Challenge, but since G4 doesn't exist, I'm going to disregard that), this marks the 4th year in Vegas (ANW4~7) where we finally have champions! I guess "4th" really is a magical number, since SASUKE and KUNOICHI, also had their first champion on 4th tournament. Interestingly, VIKING also had champion in 4th tournament; even though the format was completely different.
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Post by knorikus on Sept 18, 2015 18:01:45 GMT -5
Isaac came out today in an interview stating that he is the first American ninja warrior, and winner, and that he thinks only he deserves any title... Classy. My feelings shifted a bit towards him after reading this. Britten also proposed an alternative, inspired by the Japanese show "Sasuke," on which "American Ninja Warrior" is based. "In Japan, if two people beat the final stage they consider them co-champions and they get an equal prize, but here in America we have to have a winner." However, Caldiero does not think there is anything to dispute. "There is no distinction, it’s the same title," Caldiero told IBT. "There are pictures of me holding the trophy that says I’m the first American Ninja Warrior. I guess they are trying to give him a moment too but as far as the rules go, there is one title. It’s an all or nothing deal." I seriously don't understand why anyone would think you shouldn't be an American Ninja Warrior just because two did it in the same season. Would the next person to win be the second? You conquered all four stages, you deserve the title. The announcers even said it at the beginning of stage four. You climb the tower in under 30 seconds you become an American Ninja warrior. If it were that only one could win per season don't put a time limit on stage four and just make the fastest the winner.
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