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Post by jork122 on Sept 9, 2014 2:37:59 GMT -5
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Post by vaughngk on Sept 10, 2014 11:41:56 GMT -5
Your list is interesting but I think you place to much emphasize on past performances speed and times in qualifying and city finals. David Campbell is ranked too high on the list for failing stage one three times in a row. Joe is also ranked to high he is good but not enough to justify a number 2 Maybe a top 5. Paul K has been stage 3 twice but never got past UC and has not beaten stage 2 since. Although he is one of two of Americans to almost beat stage 3 in a competion but that was during a special so he didn't beat the other two stages. Brain Arnold is not that fast in qualifying or finals but all that matters in the Vegas finals and Sasuke is beating the stages within the time limit and he has no problem doing that and he still the only person on that to almost beat stage 3 both times he's been there and nobody else can claim that.
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Post by jork122 on Sept 10, 2014 13:25:30 GMT -5
Thanks for the reply. No ranking is perfect, and I'll post a different algorithm later which ranks ONLY the Vegas and Japan obstacles (and also ranks the Japanese). In that rank, Arnold is 2nd. That rank also accounts for his All-Star work in ANW5, which my algorithm does not account for (I'm still thinking about it, but most of the ninjas should let their ANW body of work decide their rank, not All Star work, and they're likely competing twice on the same obstacle).
Campbell's body of work is still impressive though, and in ANW4 and ANW5 he went deep into stage 1 (spin bridge, time out). Those things matter in my rank. He has never messed up pre-Vegas and routinely puts up top times, and has been to Stage 3 twice in the G4 era. So while he's not as good recently, he's still very notable in the Ninja World. I don't have that much of a problem putting him third.
As for Arnold, yeah I can see where his rank generates a lot of criticism. I actually gave him those extra points for breaking new ground in Stage 3. But you nailed it: my alg accounts for speed. An interesting thing is that Arnold purposely wasted time in Stage 1 this year and had the second slowest time (17th) but he technically finished with 20 seconds remaining; had he pressed the button earlier, he should have been sixth or seventh, which would have vaulted him above Drechsel and maybe Steffensen. So some of his rank is self-inflicted. I definitely think he can sleepwalk through Stage 3 and do well in Stage 2, though, and 8th isn't a bad rank when he's less than a tenth of a point away from #4 (Travis Rosen). I'll see what I can do, but I'm somewhat satisfied with his placement. It's just very competitive up top, and some other guys have more seniority.
I happen to think Moravsky is legit. Like an American Yuuji, in terms of work ethic (needs to develop better cliffing technique, though). He's a speed demon who in his first two years has made it to Stage 3, and it's recent and fresh. He's actually closer to Kasemir than he is to Campbell in rank as well. He's the "it" ninja right now. I know everyone's going to say, "oh, he can't do the rock climbing and Arnold can" and people like to look at Arnold as the guy who can win it all because Stages 3 and 4 are all upper body, but I would need to see Arnold get there again. Moravsky at least has made Stage 3 twice, and I think he'll improve. The Japan algorithm my friend uses has Moravsky #1, so I think there's a pretty clear consensus that he's top two.
Kasemir is a high level Mr consistency and that counts for a lot, and he's been in ANW since the second season, and never flubbed before Vegas. He's seriously legit and always gets to Stage 2. Super fast times even with a brisk pace. And he's been to Stage 3 twice even if they were both in Japan. But that's a top notch resume there. No qualms putting him that high--he's always overlooked because a Steffensen or an Arnold always makes it the farthest in any season, but Kasemir usually places in the top 3-5 of any given season in overall rank.
Look forward to the great discussion.
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Amber
Yamada Kōji
Striker 2.0
"The Earth is round you square"
Posts: 1,112
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Post by Amber on Sept 10, 2014 14:43:55 GMT -5
Pretty good list I'd say.
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Post by Oti on Sept 10, 2014 20:12:04 GMT -5
Tim Shieff competed alongside me in ANW4.
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Post by tbowman on Sept 11, 2014 22:35:56 GMT -5
I enjoy a good ranking debate.
Ranking ANW competitors is very difficult. Everything depends on one's criteria. Your criteria are far different than my own.
Qualifying and City Finals are irrelevant to me. I would not use these as criteria at all. I would only judge and rank people according to their performance in Vegas / Sasuke.
I would also put by far the highest criteria value on those who have gone the farthest.
Which puts Brian Arnold #1.
2. Joe Moravsky (sp?)
3. Brent Steffanson (sp?)
4. David Campbell (sp?)
Remaining individuals can be ranked according to their historical success on the course. Maybe Kasemir (sp?) #5. McGrath #6.
Don't know where he ends up, but Brian Orosco should be higher. One of the legends.
Jake Smith at #36 cracks me up. He is my least favorite competitor of all time. To me, he made a mockery of the course and represented pretty much every single quality I dislike in an ANW competitor. He wouldn't come anywhere near any list of rankings of the all-time ANW greats. I have been very happy he has either chosen not to compete or was not invited to compete the past few years.
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Post by dudesky1000 on Sept 12, 2014 22:27:58 GMT -5
I enjoy a good ranking debate. Ranking ANW competitors is very difficult. Everything depends on one's criteria. Your criteria are far different than my own. Qualifying and City Finals are irrelevant to me. I would not use these as criteria at all. I would only judge and rank people according to their performance in Vegas / Sasuke. I would also put by far the highest criteria value on those who have gone the farthest. Which puts Brian Arnold #1. 2. Joe Moravsky (sp?) 3. Brent Steffanson (sp?) 4. David Campbell (sp?) Remaining individuals can be ranked according to their historical success on the course. Maybe Kasemir (sp?) #5. McGrath #6. Don't know where he ends up, but Brian Orosco should be higher. One of the legends. Jake Smith at #36 cracks me up. He is my least favorite competitor of all time. To me, he made a mockery of the course and represented pretty much every single quality I dislike in an ANW competitor. He wouldn't come anywhere near any list of rankings of the all-time ANW greats. I have been very happy he has either chosen not to compete or was not invited to compete the past few years. I also enjoy a good ranking debate, but not if the posts are going to be inflammatory. Why the hate for Jake Smith? He had his fair share of good results. There are still 35 guys better than him according to the list, you know.  As for who belongs at the top, I think that the history of the show is still too young to determine that. There are certainly a few guys who deserve a shout for making multiple third stage appearances, i.e. Paul, James, David and Brent. Joe can probably be added among them now, definitely if he has another decent run next season. Brian Orosco is definitely up there among some of the SASUKE guys, but his performances on ANW itself haven't quite matched his performances in Japan. You have to remember that his strongest season on SASUKE was not affiliated with ANW in any way. I think guys like Arnold, Stratis, Travis Rosen and Elet could be grouped together in a tier of guys who have really have had one 'great' performance but have yet to really back it up as a serious threat to win the whole thing. Any of these guys could easily break into the aforementioned elite group with another Third Stage appearance next season. Travis and Ryan probably deserve to be up there because they would have made it to the Third Stage if it weren't for really dumb obstacle design flaws, but then again, two guys did manage to make it. Anyway, I think rankings are kind of silly and are only really useful when TBS determines the running order in SASUKE, as NBC probably should with Vegas. |
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Post by tbowman on Sept 12, 2014 23:06:30 GMT -5
I enjoy a good ranking debate. Ranking ANW competitors is very difficult. Everything depends on one's criteria. Your criteria are far different than my own. Qualifying and City Finals are irrelevant to me. I would not use these as criteria at all. I would only judge and rank people according to their performance in Vegas / Sasuke. I would also put by far the highest criteria value on those who have gone the farthest. Which puts Brian Arnold #1. 2. Joe Moravsky (sp?) 3. Brent Steffanson (sp?) 4. David Campbell (sp?) Remaining individuals can be ranked according to their historical success on the course. Maybe Kasemir (sp?) #5. McGrath #6. Don't know where he ends up, but Brian Orosco should be higher. One of the legends. Jake Smith at #36 cracks me up. He is my least favorite competitor of all time. To me, he made a mockery of the course and represented pretty much every single quality I dislike in an ANW competitor. He wouldn't come anywhere near any list of rankings of the all-time ANW greats. I have been very happy he has either chosen not to compete or was not invited to compete the past few years. I also enjoy a good ranking debate, but not if the posts are going to be inflammatory. Why the hate for Jake Smith? He had his fair share of good results. There are still 35 guys better than him according to the list, you know. As for who belongs at the top, I think that the history of the show is still too young to determine that. There are certainly a few guys who deserve a shout for making multiple third stage appearances, i.e. Paul, James, David and Brent. Joe can probably be added among them now, definitely if he has another decent run next season. Brian Orosco is definitely up there among some of the SASUKE guys, but his performances on ANW itself haven't quite matched his performances in Japan. You have to remember that his strongest season on SASUKE was not affiliated with ANW in any way. I think guys like Arnold, Stratis, Travis Rosen and Elet could be grouped together in a tier of guys who have really have had one 'great' performance but have yet to really back it up as a serious threat to win the whole thing. Any of these guys could easily break into the aforementioned elite group with another Third Stage appearance next season. Travis and Ryan probably deserve to be up there because they would have made it to the Third Stage if it weren't for really dumb obstacle design flaws, but then again, two guys did manage to make it. Anyway, I think rankings are kind of silly and are only really useful when TBS determines the running order in SASUKE, as NBC probably should with Vegas. Probably being a bit hard on Jake. Didn't realize he has made it to Stage 2 in Sasuke. Gotta give him props for that. Seeing him struggle so much with fatigue in seasons 4 & 5 bothered me. One season? Okay - I get it. But two seasons in a row? Made me think at that point he wasn't taking the course very seriously and it was maybe time for someone else to get a chance. But I will walk my comments back a bit. He has had some success on the course and is deserving of his spot in ANW's young history. I'm just not a fan. Forgot about Drew. He is up there. I also agree NBC should seed everyone to determine running order. |
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Post by greenday61892 on Sept 14, 2014 8:08:42 GMT -5
He made it to stage 2 the year we were a knee injury away from getting all 10 reps there right? Jake, that is.
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Amber
Yamada Kōji
Striker 2.0
"The Earth is round you square"
Posts: 1,112
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Post by Amber on Sept 14, 2014 8:39:14 GMT -5
He made it to stage 2 the year we were a knee injury away from getting all 10 reps there right? Jake, that is. Yes, you are correct. Jake nearly fell off the Rope Ladder, but he caught himself on the Tarzan Rope. However, I agree that his placing on the list was fair. |
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