|
Post by RiderLeangle on Sept 12, 2014 9:42:02 GMT -5
I have no idea what Brian did as I didn't see the episode. I do know that in the past I've disliked showboating of any kind (from Usain Bolt to Levi Meeuwenberg and everyone in between). I think what he's trying to say is that in this country anything is permissible simply because "everyone does it" as this Survivor generation has been taught the past 20+ years. Not everyone is like that thankfully. However in this instance quite a few ANW people have fallen into that trap despite it being just a television show. I'll espouse what the Japanese have been saying after their experience in the USA (last year and this). Sasuke is a sport and ANW is a television show. I agree with them. Honestly I think it's blown out of proportion, he's just running down the clock to get an earlier time in Stage 2. I don't see the big deal, he cleared the course with plenty of time and wanted to go early in stage 2, it's not like there's a rule about having to hit the button right away, you just have to hit it in the time limit. I don't think there was any ill intent, I think NBC has just been doing their usual spin on him this season. Also: People like Bryan, Ian, Issac & Geoffnotjeff (Geoff Britten) all actually have the confidence in their skills/training and the mental edge to do the things like let the time run down because they believe it will positively effect their performance. -Winning Ugly? YOUR OPINION! Im a competitor and competitive, I win by any means necessary. (ie Tanking in the NBA or Manipulating draws) ALL SPORTS HAVE THESE FACTORS TO THINK ABOUT! Bryan was the first one to think about that in regards to ANW. Groundbreaking! (SEE that's my opinion) Minor nitpick, it's Brian, not Bryan, not unless Arnold suddenly turned into Daniel Bryan and plans to wrestle the obstacles, and really when would anything like that happen in American Nin... Oh...(sorry, I had to make some joke about that sign )
|
|
|
Post by dudesky1000 on Sept 12, 2014 10:03:00 GMT -5
I think the only ones who were blowing this out of proportion were the other guys. All I ever said was, he doesn't deserve any sportsmanship awards. He celebrates before even approaching the button, then puts his hand over the button as a tease, and then after pressing it goes to hot dog for the crowd again. It's totally valid. He did a great job, and had a very impressive run. But it was a little too much for my tastes. That's all I ever said, before you guys took it so personally and made it about strategy. The strategy never bothered me--he says it himself that he did it so he wouldn't have to be stressed. He wanted to enjoy watching his friends run. I never complained about that. I only complained about a motive you were giving him, a motive that would have turned a Stage 2 clear into an assumption, which, in sport, there really is no place for assumptions. They only lead to painful defeats.
|
|
|
Post by UnrealCanine on Sept 12, 2014 11:21:35 GMT -5
I'm a little conflicted on the issue.
On one hand, had he run later, he could have seen a path through the Rope Jungle, and potentially beaten the stage
On the other, that didn't help Lorin Bell, and a few others (i.e. everyone) fell later into the stage, so running first or last wouldn't have made that great a difference. Also, the thing about assuming stuff is, Stage 2 has had a quick launch obstacle since Sasuke 7. Thinking that they would change it would be like them not having the Warped Wall in qualifying.
|
|
|
Post by drewak47 on Sept 12, 2014 11:26:00 GMT -5
I think the only ones who were blowing this out of proportion were the other guys. All I ever said was, he doesn't deserve any sportsmanship awards. He celebrates before even approaching the button, then puts his hand over the button as a tease, and then after pressing it goes to hot dog for the crowd again. It's totally valid. He did a great job, and had a very impressive run. But it was a little too much for my tastes. That's all I ever said, before you guys took it so personally and made it about strategy. The strategy never bothered me--he says it himself that he did it so he wouldn't have to be stressed. He wanted to enjoy watching his friends run. I never complained about that. I only complained about a motive you were giving him, a motive that would have turned a Stage 2 clear into an assumption, which, in sport, there really is no place for assumptions. They only lead to painful defeats. Can we have it officially noted that dudesky1000 does not like the way Brian finished his run on stage one and that it is just his opinion of which his is allowed to have and that is all he is trying to say. And maybe we can move onto other things people have pointed out and are not about sportsmanship but more about getting away with breaking rules for the sake of tv.... one being that stage 2 before the butterfly jump you could see everyone checking and stepping past the red carpet before the jump, but not Joe he starts about 2 steps back behind. two, the balls to doorknobs... i am sure just like all the other things like this with a hanging object one is not supposed to grab the chain leading up to the ball...but again Joe on the 3rdball clearly has both hands on the chain and not on the ball what are the thoughts about this? I know that Joe has stated that unless a judge tells you to stop you keep going which he clearly did but when touting the guy that dq'ed himself for knowing he broke a rule as good sportsmanship would this be considered "paying the game" or poor sportsmanship of using loophole to your advantage?
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Sept 12, 2014 11:32:18 GMT -5
I understand Bryan perfectly. As someone who had to wait from 8pm in a tiny competitors area and did not get the chance to run until 5 am, I know exactly what Brian was trying to avoid. Honestly I probably would've done the same, at least on my second attempt at Vegas. Waiting around stressed really saps your energy.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Sept 12, 2014 12:45:47 GMT -5
Thanks for the video Rider. I have to admit.. my back went up when I saw it.. I .. don't like it at all. However, it's within the rules. I think when the burden of proof (trying to find the correct word here) is shifted from the producers to the competitors the blame gets shifted incorrectly. I think because the rules change every year this one rule and the way it was used is startling to see. For those of us who are hardcore Sasuke fans where we are "used" to seeing them run in order in every stage, seeing something like that smacks of arrogance. It may well have not been, but because the rules changed and it seemed out of place, people like us will see it as a STARK change. With everyone running in the exact order they were given there is no "blame" per se on the competitor. This way however, all eyes are shifted to the competitor for "doing that". Again, perfectly legal but I think because it's Brian Arnold and not someone else who would expect to do that it seemed out of place and unnecessary and why it was brought up for the past 2-3 pages. I reaaaaaaally don't like the video and now completely understand why people are losing their marbles. Perfectly legal but ooooooooooh the optics are bad on that. Blame NBC though, they keep changing rules every year.. one of the other frustrations for those who are not happy with NBC's production.
Edit: The Usain Bolt thing was in the finals.. he could have had a higher time but he slowed down to gloryhound. It was a topic discussed at nauseum by every major reporting around the world. Those who love him will defend it, those of us who like sportsmanship despise him. Doesn't change the feat or his place in history.
|
|
|
Post by dudesky1000 on Sept 12, 2014 12:47:10 GMT -5
I think the only ones who were blowing this out of proportion were the other guys. All I ever said was, he doesn't deserve any sportsmanship awards. He celebrates before even approaching the button, then puts his hand over the button as a tease, and then after pressing it goes to hot dog for the crowd again. It's totally valid. He did a great job, and had a very impressive run. But it was a little too much for my tastes. That's all I ever said, before you guys took it so personally and made it about strategy. The strategy never bothered me--he says it himself that he did it so he wouldn't have to be stressed. He wanted to enjoy watching his friends run. I never complained about that. I only complained about a motive you were giving him, a motive that would have turned a Stage 2 clear into an assumption, which, in sport, there really is no place for assumptions. They only lead to painful defeats. Can we have it officially noted that dudesky1000 does not like the way Brian finished his run on stage one and that it is just his opinion of which his is allowed to have and that is all he is trying to say. And maybe we can move onto other things people have pointed out and are not about sportsmanship but more about getting away with breaking rules for the sake of tv.... one being that stage 2 before the butterfly jump you could see everyone checking and stepping past the red carpet before the jump, but not Joe he starts about 2 steps back behind. two, the balls to doorknobs... i am sure just like all the other things like this with a hanging object one is not supposed to grab the chain leading up to the ball...but again Joe on the 3rdball clearly has both hands on the chain and not on the ball what are the thoughts about this? I know that Joe has stated that unless a judge tells you to stop you keep going which he clearly did but when touting the guy that dq'ed himself for knowing he broke a rule as good sportsmanship would this be considered "paying the game" or poor sportsmanship of using loophole to your advantage? Haha, thank you, that's all I was trying to say.
|
|
|
Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Sept 12, 2014 12:55:20 GMT -5
Thanks for the video Rider. I have to admit.. my back went up when I saw it.. I .. don't like it at all. However, it's within the rules. I think when the burden of proof (trying to find the correct word here) is shifted from the producers to the competitors the blame gets shifted incorrectly. I think because the rules change every year this one rule and the way it was used is startling to see. For those of us who are hardcore Sasuke fans where we are "used" to seeing them run in order in every stage, seeing something like that smacks of arrogance. It may well have not been, but because the rules changed and it seemed out of place, people like us will see it as a STARK change. With everyone running in the exact order they were given there is no "blame" per se on the competitor. This way however, all eyes are shifted to the competitor for "doing that". Again, perfectly legal but I think because it's Brian Arnold and not someone else who would expect to do that it seemed out of place and unnecessary and why it was brought up for the past 2-3 pages. I reaaaaaaally don't like the video and now completely understand why people are losing their marbles. Perfectly legal but ooooooooooh the optics are bad on that. Blame NBC though, they keep changing rules every year.. one of the other frustrations for those who are not happy with NBC's production. You literally took the words right out of my mouth with this. I know what he was opting to do but the new second stage he may think twice before doing that again... I didn't like what he did either, seriously unnecessary... but still I don't want this to blow up into a huge argument on who's on what side. What's done is done.
|
|
|
Post by RiderLeangle on Sept 12, 2014 13:21:41 GMT -5
I just want to point out to everyone they've been ordering the stage 2 runs by speed since ANW4 when they started, but I know what you mean by changing rules as opposed to Sasuke. Honestly the way I see it that's just strategy to not be in suspense waiting to run (it sucks) and getting a longer rest in the event he made it to Stage 3. Honestly NBC gets all the blame for someone having to do this. I mean if they didn't have it set up like that I could understand (mainly because of the way he celebrated before going to the button), but really in my eyes this isn't much different than Nagano walking over to the button when he has enough time, granted this is a bigger scale of doing something like that but that's NBC's fault
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Sept 12, 2014 13:31:40 GMT -5
I just want to point out to everyone they've been ordering the stage 2 runs by speed since ANW4 when they started, but I know what you mean by changing rules as opposed to Sasuke. Honestly the way I see it that's just strategy to not be in suspense waiting to run (it sucks) and getting a longer rest in the event he made it to Stage 3. Honestly NBC gets all the blame for someone having to do this. I mean if they didn't have it set up like that I could understand (mainly because of the way he celebrated before going to the button), but really in my eyes this isn't much different than Nagano walking over to the button when he has enough time, granted this is a bigger scale of doing something like that but that's NBC's fault The fundamental difference with Nagano (or anyone else slowing down to savor the moment) is that it doesn't change their order in the next stage. One is relief "omg finally I have it I don't have to kill myself to get to the button" and the other is "omg I got here too quickly lolz lemme slow down because I want to control where I go in the next couple of stages". I did quantify that I'm looking at it from the optics of Sasuke where the runs order is never tampered with. This is why I said the optics are bad for what Brian did. The focus shifted to him for deliberately waiting whether the furor behind it turned out to be fair or not. Just looks bad.
|
|
|
Post by RiderLeangle on Sept 12, 2014 13:32:52 GMT -5
I just want to point out to everyone they've been ordering the stage 2 runs by speed since ANW4 when they started, but I know what you mean by changing rules as opposed to Sasuke. Honestly the way I see it that's just strategy to not be in suspense waiting to run (it sucks) and getting a longer rest in the event he made it to Stage 3. Honestly NBC gets all the blame for someone having to do this. I mean if they didn't have it set up like that I could understand (mainly because of the way he celebrated before going to the button), but really in my eyes this isn't much different than Nagano walking over to the button when he has enough time, granted this is a bigger scale of doing something like that but that's NBC's fault The fundamental difference with Nagano (or anyone else slowing down to savor the moment) is that it doesn't change their order in the next stage. One is relief "omg finally I have it I don't have to kill myself to get to the button" and the other is "omg I got here too quickly lolz lemme slow down because I want to control where I go in the next couple of stages". I did quantify that I'm looking at it from the optics of Sasuke where the runs order is never tampered with. This is why I said the optics are bad for what Brian did. The focus shifted to him for deliberately waiting whether the furor behind it turned out to be fair or not. Just looks bad. Completely agreed, that's why I said this was more major and NBC was at fault
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Sept 12, 2014 16:34:37 GMT -5
What Brian did does look bad, but from a competitor's point of view I completely understand his decision. People who havn't competed arn't aware of how stressful and agonizing the wait can be. It's so bad that it alone has caused some people to quit the show. I remember talking to Steve Volcko and he was almost burdened by the fact that he made it to the semis last year, because he would have to go through that wait again. This is something that I personally struggled with in SPADES. When I competed in ANW5 I had to wait around stressed for 8+ hours. By the time I finally got to compete, I was drained. I had done nothing to tire me out, but the stress completely sapped me. Ultimately, it caused me to fail on an obstacle I could've easily beaten (see my sig for details).
This is something that everyone goes through, both Japanese and American competitors. The rules are different for ANW, as they go based off of time and not run number. It's clear from Brian's interview and tweets that he was not show boating, but simply trying to maximize his chances of beating stage 3. In doing so, he underestimated stage 2 and lost - but he has obviously accepted that fact. It's a risk he was willing to take, and he paid for it. I hold absolutely no contempt for him personally. Maybe you guys don't agree with it, but I think at least you can understand the reasoning behind it.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Sept 12, 2014 16:41:49 GMT -5
Agreed Bada. I've been an athlete so completely understand that. The optics of how he did it looks horrible but it was NBC that came up with that rule. My own personal opinion is to have them run the same way they started and stick with it. That way preparing for the event stages is already known, you know what to do at what time and it's less about having a strategy to manipulate the order on TOP of all of that. The wait sucks, however this was not taped in one night. The wait would have been there regardless of what order someone was in however I understand Steve's point of view. We have an equivalent in Sasuke - Kouji Hashimoto.
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Sept 12, 2014 16:46:21 GMT -5
Oh I agree that they should run them in the same order, that makes the most sense to me - keeps everything consistent. Yes they would've had to wait anyway, but considering how freaking slow NBC runs their show sometimes, the different between going first and going 5th is freaking massive. It could be hours. The difference between going first and 19th would be huuuuuuuge. I don't know where Brian would've ended up time wise had he not waited, but he definitely went much earlier than he would have. Maybe it helped him, maybe it hurt him. We don't really know. There are positives and negatives to it, as people have already discussed.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Sept 12, 2014 16:52:23 GMT -5
Heh I remember reading tweets and whatnot from Saturday going "uhm.. nothing has gone on for over an hour.. should I go home?" LOL That's painful for an audience.. I can imagine from an athlete's perspective. I'm sure Brian though is hearing it if it's gotten to the point where he's speaking publicly about it. I'm curious if NBC will change anything or people would be more "discrete" in how they do it. I think if it wasn't so blatant no one would be losing their marbles over it. It was the hand over buzzer and looking at the time that just took my breath away.
|
|
|
Post by dlee on Sept 12, 2014 19:45:32 GMT -5
Im a competitor and competitive, I win by any means necessary. (ie Tanking in the NBA or Manipulating draws) ALL SPORTS HAVE THESE FACTORS TO THINK ABOUT! Yes and doing anything you said (in this specific quote) is grounds for lifetime bans in every major Olympic sport if proven... heck it was made famous in baseball and has played out over the years over and over all leading to bans, suspensions and whatnot. Yes its grounds but almost impossible to police as it can be executed very subtly or completely deliberate. Australia did it like 2 weeks ago in the FIBA world cup ! I have never really heard anything about the baseball apart from drugs (which i did not say because that is CHEATING). Not to mention it isn't an Olympic sport anymore. And after the input from Bada, I cant see why more competitors wont think about doing the "Brian Strategy" next year. (EDIT: Unless NBC address it? Chances of that happening?) Sounds like almost the worst conditions for one to be at their physical peak!
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Sept 12, 2014 19:59:23 GMT -5
Very much agreed dlee not sure how (or if) NBC will address it. I'm sure they are getting a lot of flack on it now especially since it was sooooooooo deliberate. One thing about masking it (and I'm sure everyone has done that by either deliberately slowing down before each obstacle, etc.) but entirely another having an image of hovering that hand over the button for what seemed like an eternity. And yes that's happened in other sports but they are smarter in how they do it. As for the baseball thing.. that was the World Series.. not the Olympics. LOL For those who saw Kevin Costner's Field of Dreams.. that's the team that was in the corn field.
|
|
|
Post by peterpack on Sept 16, 2014 10:29:03 GMT -5
So guys, in real time, how many runs are there per hour ? How long in total did the stage 1 runs take ? I would have thought 7 to 8 runs per hour should be doeable
|
|
|
Post by blah123 on Sept 16, 2014 12:04:54 GMT -5
So guys, in real time, how many runs are there per hour ? How long in total did the stage 1 runs take ? I would have thought 7 to 8 runs per hour should be doeable I would say anywhere from 0 an hour if there is weather or production issues (which there always are) to up to 15 an hour if things are moving quickly. On average, probably about 4 an hour. Source: been to 3 city qualifiers. Regardless, ANW is not a spectator sport except for the diehards.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Sept 16, 2014 13:20:52 GMT -5
I just remembering reading the tweets of people twiddling their thumbs for an hour or more during taping. LOL
|
|