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Post by RiderLeangle on Jun 18, 2013 1:21:28 GMT -5
If 28's first stage was so easy and just had a weak field, explain why plenty of legit competitors failed... By your logic, Kouji should have cleared, Nagano should have cleared, both of the reps from both America and Singapore should have cleared, Wakky should have cleared, ect (ok Cat would have cleared if not for hurting his back on the Escargot but still...)... 28 was and 29 is harder than you give them credit for... Also note the Log Grip isn't the same as it was, it now has more grip focus instead of just having parts you can push into to hang in for... honestly this LG looks harder than the escargot (it just seems less extreme because you're not flipping over and focuses less on technique...)
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Post by RobbyMac on Jun 18, 2013 2:14:43 GMT -5
but I guess I just don't want to see Yuuji win again. That's your entire argument. It's obvious you hate Yuuji. If the show was so damn easy we'd have double digit winners. End of story. Don't hate him. Hate Ryo more to be honest. The only stage that give them legit problems got nerfed and they have a free pass to stage 3. How many times you think they're going to fail that stage? 2 tops? They're going to beat the stages before I get to see competitors I like on stage 3. It's crap. |
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Post by arsenette on Jun 18, 2013 2:21:38 GMT -5
That's your entire argument. It's obvious you hate Yuuji. If the show was so damn easy we'd have double digit winners. End of story. Don't hate him. Hate Ryo more to be honest. The only stage that give them legit problems got nerfed and they have a free pass to stage 3. How many times you think they're going to fail that stage? 2 tops? They're going to beat the stages before I get to see competitors I like on stage 3. It's crap. I know we've had this discussion before though you really don't see it as the problem.. I never EVER understood people "hating" someone or something simply because their favorites failed.. how the hell is it the fault of the OTHER person? Seriously.. If they created the course.. then hate them.. if they sabotaged someone.. hate them.. but clearing something that someone else couldn't you hate? It's an incredibly childish thought pattern that seems very pervasive with his upcoming generation that reaaaaaally irks me. It's the same in everything not just Sasuke.. anime, gaming, sports.. "hate the person that took the spot of someone else deemed worthy in the minds of fans (even though they failed every time they were there)".. This isn't survivor where someone "VOTES" someone off.. either they pass the obstacle or they don't.. No one has control over anyone else. I wish more people would understand that before piling hate on someone who doesn't have any control over others. |
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Post by RobbyMac on Jun 18, 2013 2:25:20 GMT -5
If 28's first stage was so easy and just had a weak field, explain why plenty of legit competitors failed... By your logic, Kouji should have cleared, Nagano should have cleared, both of the reps from both America and Singapore should have cleared, Wakky should have cleared, ect (ok Cat would have cleared if not for hurting his back on the Escargot but still...)... 28 was and 29 is harder than you give them credit for... Also note the Log Grip isn't the same as it was, it now has more grip focus instead of just having parts you can push into to hang in for... honestly this LG looks harder than the escargot (it just seems less extreme because you're not flipping over and focuses less on technique...) It was easy. Give them stage 1 again they'll beat it. But we won't see that. Koji, Li, Nagano, Takeda, Shingo, Cat and the Signapore guy maybe guys should have cleared. What is so hard on 29? Nothing at the level of Rolling Escargot or the Spin Bridge. Nothing. We won't see Takeda fail the log grip. It won't happen. But he failed the RE which also slows down competitors. Log grip lasts for what 2 seconds after you wrap your legs? The hedgehog looks like a 5-7 second obstacle that you can cling to. What's so difficult about that? Twenty-eight's stage 1 course was easier than any stage 1 since maybe Sasuke 16. They failed and they responded by removing the obstacles that were tough and putting in easier ones which is great to give people a chance at making stage 2 but horrible for the spirit of competition. Why not bring Akiyama back now? I like his chances against this course and not so much against 28. We'll probably see guys like Wakky and Kinnikun clear. I don't see why to make it easier when in reality it wasn't hard. Will anyone argue that 28 was harder than 27? It wasn't. But 27 had more clears. The course gets people sometimes but with no challenging stage 1 obstacles there is no the course might get you feeling. |
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Post by arsenette on Jun 18, 2013 2:29:52 GMT -5
There will NEVER be enough pleasing people when it comes to obstacles. They go by history. Regardless of what couch spectators think. Besides the reason why they changed the first stage was because of the ASEAN Cup. They wanted to change the course so no one who was in 28 had an advantage of having the course memorized beforehand. Personally I hope they do what they used to do before.. change it every tournament just to mess with people's heads. And again.. as far as that's concerned it doesn't matter how many pass stage 1.. you don't get a title for that. You do for all 4 stages so quite frankly I don't give a damn what they do with individual obstacles so long as the end result is still the same - winner of all 4 stages. If that were the case Takeda would be immortalized for being Stage 3 champion.. but he's not.. he's the only one who never got to the final.
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Post by RobbyMac on Jun 18, 2013 2:35:51 GMT -5
Don't hate him. Hate Ryo more to be honest. The only stage that give them legit problems got nerfed and they have a free pass to stage 3. How many times you think they're going to fail that stage? 2 tops? They're going to beat the stages before I get to see competitors I like on stage 3. It's crap. I know we've had this discussion before though you really don't see it as the problem.. I never EVER understood people "hating" someone or something simply because their favorites failed.. how the hell is it the fault of the OTHER person? Seriously.. If they created the course.. then hate them.. if they sabotaged someone.. hate them.. but clearing something that someone else couldn't you hate? It's an incredibly childish thought pattern that seems very pervasive with his upcoming generation that reaaaaaally irks me. It's the same in everything not just Sasuke.. anime, gaming, sports.. "hate the person that took the spot of someone else deemed worthy in the minds of fans (even though they failed every time they were there)".. This isn't survivor where someone "VOTES" someone off.. either they pass the obstacle or they don't.. No one has control over anyone else. I wish more people would understand that before piling hate on someone who doesn't have any control over others. I just don't think Ryo can beat a legit stage 1. You can put money down he went home and worked on swimming and leg strength for stage 2. I don't hate him because my favorite failed. I just think he's getting a walk to a stage that's his forte. Same goes for Yuuji. I understand I sound childish but it took 13 tournaments from after the 1st total victory to get our 2nd Kanzenseiha. And 7 for our 3rd which Yuuji was around 5 for. 3 to get our 4th. We're working towards a 5th by 30. The world's toughest course is getting more athletic competitors with amazing strength to body weight ratios and the course should be adjusted to challenge them in each stage. I have no control and I can beg and whine all day and it won't change a thing. It's just an opinion. Stage 1 is my favorite stage and it's seriously nerfed unless there's a surprise obstacle after the Ni Ren Soritatsu Kabe. My attitude for the tournament isn't changed. All that said I'm still excited and will be rooting for my faves no matter what. |
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Post by RobbyMac on Jun 18, 2013 2:41:49 GMT -5
There will NEVER be enough pleasing people when it comes to obstacles. They go by history. Regardless of what couch spectators think. Besides the reason why they changed the first stage was because of the ASEAN Cup. They wanted to change the course so no one who was in 28 had an advantage of having the course memorized beforehand. Personally I hope they do what they used to do before.. change it every tournament just to mess with people's heads. And again.. as far as that's concerned it doesn't matter how many pass stage 1.. you don't get a title for that. You do for all 4 stages so quite frankly I don't give a damn what they do with individual obstacles so long as the end result is still the same - winner of all 4 stages. If that were the case Takeda would be immortalized for being Stage 3 champion.. but he's not.. he's the only one who never got to the final. This is all true and I like the idea of changing the course every time but it's not a reason to decrease the difficulty of a stage after 1 bad tournament where quite frankly there were only maybe 20 threats to actually beat the easy 1st stage but on 5 were able to do so. You have to complete each stage for a reason and I guess someone can foolishly fail an obstacle on 29s stage 1, but it should be a challenge. |
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Post by arsenette on Jun 18, 2013 2:42:08 GMT -5
I just don't think Ryo can beat a legit stage 1. You can put money down he went home and worked on swimming and leg strength for stage 2. I don't hate him because my favorite failed. I just think he's getting a walk to a stage that's his forte. Same goes for Yuuji. I understand I sound childish but it took 13 tournaments from after the 1st total victory to get our 2nd Kanzenseiha. And 7 for our 3rd which Yuuji was around 5 for. 3 to get our 4th. We're working towards a 5th by 30. The world's toughest course is getting more athletic competitors with amazing strength to body weight ratios and the course should be adjusted to challenge them in each stage. I have no control and I can beg and whine all day and it won't change a thing. It's just an opinion. Stage 1 is my favorite stage and it's seriously nerfed unless there's a surprise obstacle after the Ni Ren Soritatsu Kabe. My attitude for the tournament isn't changed. All that said I'm still excited and will be rooting for my faves no matter what. Unfortunately that is a childish way of thinking though. It's not the fault of person who cleared the course. Period. What's Nagano's excuse? Or Takeda's excuse? Hell what was the excuse in Sasuke 24? HOW many choked the final? Hell.. there were 2 that choked stage 3.. Fact of the matter is you hate people who are genuinely talented and can adjust to what is thrown in front of them. The way the All-stars did in their heyday. You weren't watching at that time (I wasn't either) but I've read many times of your your argument posed by Japanese complaining that the All-stars had an unfair advantage and were keeping people down. Now they have Yuuji to replace that word because they can't handle the fact that their favorites either failed or choked when it mattered the most. That's the point of this course as a 4 stager in the first place. There will NEVER be enough pleasing people when it comes to obstacles. They go by history. Regardless of what couch spectators think. Besides the reason why they changed the first stage was because of the ASEAN Cup. They wanted to change the course so no one who was in 28 had an advantage of having the course memorized beforehand. Personally I hope they do what they used to do before.. change it every tournament just to mess with people's heads. And again.. as far as that's concerned it doesn't matter how many pass stage 1.. you don't get a title for that. You do for all 4 stages so quite frankly I don't give a damn what they do with individual obstacles so long as the end result is still the same - winner of all 4 stages. If that were the case Takeda would be immortalized for being Stage 3 champion.. but he's not.. he's the only one who never got to the final. This is all true and I like the idea of changing the course every time but it's not a reason to decrease the difficulty of a stage after 1 bad tournament where quite frankly there were only maybe 20 threats to actually beat the easy 1st stage but on 5 were able to do so. You have to complete each stage for a reason and I guess someone can foolishly fail an obstacle on 29s stage 1, but it should be a challenge. The problem is.. it's all subjective. Ask Yuuji who ran all the courses so far in the most recent generation. He considered 28 the hardest as a whole. Nagano and Shingo both mentioned that it's getting more specialized in the 3rd stage but the whole point of a changing first stage is to get rid of the memorization problems they had in the Shin-Sasuke era. Those who ran the courses say the exact opposite of your opinion. |
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Post by RobbyMac on Jun 18, 2013 2:49:03 GMT -5
The 1st stage was easier then but it was still harder than pre 1st Kanzenseiha's 1st stage. Then it got harder again after Nagano won. And easier/the same depending on a cherry picked tourney after Yuuji won. And now easier after Yuuji wins again? That makes no sense, and replacing the tough obstacles makes no sense. I can also argue the 2nd stage is easier as well. The course should be revamped with an increase in difficulty, not a decrease.
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Post by RobbyMac on Jun 18, 2013 2:52:20 GMT -5
This is all true and I like the idea of changing the course every time but it's not a reason to decrease the difficulty of a stage after 1 bad tournament where quite frankly there were only maybe 20 threats to actually beat the easy 1st stage but on 5 were able to do so. You have to complete each stage for a reason and I guess someone can foolishly fail an obstacle on 29s stage 1, but it should be a challenge. The problem is.. it's all subjective. Ask Yuuji who ran all the courses so far in the most recent generation. He considered 28 the hardest as a whole. Nagano and Shingo both mentioned that it's getting more specialized in the 3rd stage but the whole point of a changing first stage is to get rid of the memorization problems they had in the Shin-Sasuke era. Those who ran the courses say the exact opposite of your opinion.Prove it. I can do the same and ask competitors and they can agree with me and it doesn't make either of us right. Because I'll argue the competitor field was weak which it was.... and you'll argue by the numbers which is a factual stat. |
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Post by arsenette on Jun 18, 2013 2:54:37 GMT -5
The problem is.. it's all subjective. Ask Yuuji who ran all the courses so far in the most recent generation. He considered 28 the hardest as a whole. Nagano and Shingo both mentioned that it's getting more specialized in the 3rd stage but the whole point of a changing first stage is to get rid of the memorization problems they had in the Shin-Sasuke era. Those who ran the courses say the exact opposite of your opinion.Prove it. I can do the same and ask competitors and they can agree with me and it doesn't make either of us right. Because I'll argue the competitor field was weak which it was.... and you'll argue by the numbers which is a factual stat. Nagano, Yuuji, Shingo, Takeda, Yamada, should I keep going? Because seriously until you ran it yourself and can compare there is no argument. Outside of Yuuji anyone else who says it got easier failed anyway. And given Yuuji has the position of both winning and losing the courses the past few years and he says it's getting harder and harder as a whole (ALL FOUR Stages) anyone (especially those sitting in a couch at home) have no merit in the argument. The 1st stage was easier then but it was still harder than pre 1st Kanzenseiha's 1st stage. Then it got harder again after Nagano won. And easier/the same depending on a cherry picked tourney after Yuuji won. And now easier after Yuuji wins again? That makes no sense, and replacing the tough obstacles makes no sense. I can also argue the 2nd stage is easier as well. The course should be revamped with an increase in difficulty, not a decrease. .. You are not the tournament director and you haven't run the courses to have an educated opinion on it. Veteran Competitors already have said it's getting harder as a whole. Besides the results alone contradict your argument. We don't have multiple winners. Anyway you will never get it and even when presented with the evidence you never relent. So just keep your opinion and stick to the topic of the obstacles for Sasuke 29 as we get more information on each of the stages. We'll get more on Sunday. For now this is a dead horse we keep beating when someone perceives their tournament is being ruined by change because Yuuji makes it look easy when everyone fails miserably at it. |
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Post by RobbyMac on Jun 18, 2013 3:09:51 GMT -5
Prove it. I can do the same and ask competitors and they can agree with me and it doesn't make either of us right. Because I'll argue the competitor field was weak which it was.... and you'll argue by the numbers which is a factual stat. Nagano, Yuuji, Shingo, Takeda, Yamada, should I keep going? Because seriously until you ran it yourself and can compare there is no argument. Outside of Yuuji anyone else who says it got easier failed anyway. And given Yuuji has the position of both winning and losing the courses the past few years and he says it's getting harder and harder as a whole (ALL FOUR Stages) anyone (especially those sitting in a couch at home) have no merit in the argument. The 1st stage was easier then but it was still harder than pre 1st Kanzenseiha's 1st stage. Then it got harder again after Nagano won. And easier/the same depending on a cherry picked tourney after Yuuji won. And now easier after Yuuji wins again? That makes no sense, and replacing the tough obstacles makes no sense. I can also argue the 2nd stage is easier as well. The course should be revamped with an increase in difficulty, not a decrease. .. You are not the tournament director and you haven't run the courses to have an educated opinion on it. Veteran Competitors already have said it's getting harder as a whole. Besides the results alone contradict your argument. We don't have multiple winners. Anyway you will never get it and even when presented with the evidence you never relent. So just keep your opinion and stick to the topic of the obstacles for Sasuke 29 as we get more information on each of the stages. We'll get more on Sunday. For now this is a dead horse we keep beating when someone perceives their tournament is being ruined by change because Yuuji makes it look easy when everyone fails miserably at it. When I said to prove it I wanted you to Show Me where they said it was harder because until you show me I'll just call it hear say. To your whole point.... I'm not arguing that stage 3 isn't getting harder because it is, but the stages beforehand (Stages 1 and 2) should get more difficult as well. I'm just glad they brought the spider climb back for the final. It might by us a few more rising tournaments if they continue to get viewers and maybe to do so, stage 1 should be easier and then I'll keep my mouth closed. It's just an opinion. You can't call my opinion wrong. |
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Post by arsenette on Jun 18, 2013 3:21:53 GMT -5
When I said to prove it I wanted you to Show Me where they said it was harder because until you show me I'll just call it hear say. To your whole point.... I'm not arguing that stage 3 isn't getting harder because it is, but the stages beforehand (Stages 1 and 2) should get more difficult as well. I'm just glad they brought the spider climb back for the final. It might by us a few more rising tournaments if they continue to get viewers and maybe to do so, stage 1 should be easier and then I'll keep my mouth closed. It's just an opinion. You can't call my opinion wrong. Why? We've done it before and you dismissed it.. LOL Even when we linked the twitter conversations between Yuuji and Inui.. even when we all talked about the interviews for Rising where they all said the same thing. Even when previous interviews translated said the same thing. I have a bigger objection because you throw everyone (Sasuke competitors like Yuuji and Ryo) under the bus in order to make your opinion actually resonate with some sort of validity. Their own words contradict your opinion. Stats utterly destroy your argument. This happens every tournament so far so it's hardly new. I just take offense to blaming other competitors because your favorite failed the "easy" course. Sasuke is a Japanese Variety show with a unique premise that you are not guaranteed a winner. Just on that alone they have succeeded big time. Just like TCM said 10 winners out of 2900 attempts over 16 years.. yeah.. if it were that number or higher I'd admit to it. But it isn't so your opinion doesn't hold any weight and ultimately competitors pay the price of hate mail because x person didn't see y obstacle so Sasuke sucks and x person isn't legit. That's such an American statement. |
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2013 10:29:30 GMT -5
I don't hate Yuuji. It isn't his fault that he made the course look easy, it's the course designers that made it easy.
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Post by SRW on Jun 18, 2013 10:44:14 GMT -5
I'm a Yuuji fan but I definatly do not want to see Yuuji "Miyake" SASUKE again and again it would be boring.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jun 18, 2013 10:51:20 GMT -5
I never understand why people blame competitors about anything on the course... they're just prepping for and running the course they're given and it is getting harder over the years... there shouldn't be any hate but if someone wants to be a hater, it goes to the course designers... and there's complaint about how fast Yuuji won after Nagano did and blaming the course (despite it being harder than ever)... guess what, it happens... wouldn't be the first time really, had Nagano not made one of those little stumbles on the Spider Climb in 12, he would have! 8 tournaments after the last Kanzen Seiha, does this mean you should hate Nagano (or anyone)? NO, it's sasuke, it happens...
And despite the fact multiple competitors who experienced it first hand say it's harder, you can't just decide what's easier or harder based on just watching and result numbers, unless you actually train and/or have been on a course along with hyper-analyzing every small detail, you can't judge, I train and research like hell (along with that, have experienced a sasuke related course first hand when ANW was in Baltimore and I got to test) and agree 28 was legit hard and 29 already seems more difficult than you give it credit for...
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Post by Philip on Jun 18, 2013 11:12:09 GMT -5
I learned my lesson about complaining about course difficulty before a competition lol. You never know if a course is difficult/has a strict time limit until you actually watch the competition; and even then you can't really judge difficulty by results.
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Apexe
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Post by Apexe on Jun 18, 2013 12:39:00 GMT -5
That's why I don't really have an opinion until I actually see the competition myself.
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Post by UnrealCanine on Jun 18, 2013 12:59:06 GMT -5
I like how earlier, everyone was 'Get rid of the Rolling Escargot', and now it's gone the course is 'too easy'
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Post by RobbyMac on Jun 18, 2013 13:51:07 GMT -5
Why? We've done it before and you dismissed it.. LOL Even when we linked the twitter conversations between Yuuji and Inui.. even when we all talked about the interviews for Rising where they all said the same thing. Even when previous interviews translated said the same thing. I have a bigger objection because you throw everyone (Sasuke competitors like Yuuji and Ryo) under the bus in order to make your opinion actually resonate with some sort of validity. Their own words contradict your opinion. Stats utterly destroy your argument. This happens every tournament so far so it's hardly new. I just take offense to blaming other competitors because your favorite failed the "easy" course. Sasuke is a Japanese Variety show with a unique premise that you are not guaranteed a winner. Just on that alone they have succeeded big time. Just like TCM said 10 winners out of 2900 attempts over 16 years.. yeah.. if it were that number or higher I'd admit to it. But it isn't so your opinion doesn't hold any weight and ultimately competitors pay the price of hate mail because x person didn't see y obstacle so Sasuke sucks and x person isn't legit. That's such an American statement. You must be thinking of someone else because I have never dismissed any proof of any kind here. And I'm not blaming Yuuji for being too good. He's the best ever. I just don't want to see him win again so quickly. I definitely don't want to see Ryo win either. Also.... some of my favorites couldn't participate last time. Maybe they don't get to run again and then they won't get to run the Rising Course ever. It's not Yuuji or Ryo or Kanno's fault, but I don't want to see them win and the only way they won't win is if the course is tough prior to the third stage because they mostly train for stage 3 and are most prepared for that stage. |
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