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Post by RiderLeangle on Jun 12, 2017 9:22:16 GMT -5
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Post by arsenette on Jun 12, 2017 9:39:48 GMT -5
Yeah but only 23% voted. That's abysmal considering that all the other votes were in the 80% participation rate and one just a couple times earlier was in the 90%. For those who aren't familiar with the Rosello family, this is normal for those idiots. Everyone knows it as well. Which is why they ignored or outright boycotted the referendum. There are far bigger issues going on than political bailouts. They are doing a terrible job and want someone else to save them. This is obvious even to those in their own party...
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jun 12, 2017 9:55:21 GMT -5
Yeah considering the low turnout I'm assuming it wasn't going to go anywhere, then again even if there was a high turnout and it managed to pass the local vote I assume it would have gone nowhere in Congress anyways.
And thanks for that information, I didn't know that or much about Puerto Rican local politics, at the same time though I don't follow local politics too much for other states as well anyways.
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Post by arsenette on Jun 12, 2017 11:31:21 GMT -5
Yeah considering the low turnout I'm assuming it wasn't going to go anywhere, then again even if there was a high turnout and it managed to pass the local vote I assume it would have gone nowhere in Congress anyways. And thanks for that information, I didn't know that or much about Puerto Rican local politics, at the same time though I don't follow local politics too much for other states as well anyways. No worries. The current governor's father was also governor for a time. They are both "Statehood" party leaders and have been for most of my life. On a general note the island has been going Pro-Statehood to Status Quo back to Statehood back to Status Quo elected governors for literally all my life. They haven't had a single party hold office for too long. TBH they are all the same. Politically corrupt and out to line their pockets. That's why I've been advocating the USA clean house in there. Sadly only Statehood will bring that but even then the USA Democrats will have a field day down there. I don't like the tone of the article that if they got a majority the Republicans in the US Senate would block it. They won't if it's a super majority (like in the case of Hawaii and Alaska). The reputation of the Republicans have been tarnished for years since the Pro-Statehood party consider themselves "Republicans". So it's going to take years to change that mindset. The local politics are so vastly different than US politics it's not even funny. TBH the island is basically socialist (Independence party - wants to be away from USA and autonomous), Popular party (What we call the Status quo party that doesn't want the association with the USA to change since they don't want to pay Federal taxes and lose their identity but are basically liberals in all sense of the word..) and the PNP which in it's name is the New Progressive party which are for some reason called Republicans when their entire platform is Progressive (Far left) who want statehood. I've never seen conservatives on the island. Most of those left to the USA a long time ago. Personally I think the "stunt" of pulling this plebiscites over and over has diminished the importance of the vote given that they all know by now it's a stunt and not for real. It's a way to distract people from the corruption problem that San Juan has by trying to say "see? We tried but they wouldn't let us"... a typical cop-out maneuver. They have no intention of changing the way they bleed money on that island.
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Post by arsenette on Jul 25, 2019 4:52:34 GMT -5
Bumping my own thread from a couple years ago because this is back in the news.. I called it.. don't trust the Rosello family.. /sigh Anyway he resigned as they started the impeachment process (that is still going btw and governor (until August 2) and his cabinet is under FBI investigation). The bad part about this fiasco from the past 2 weeks is that it won't be over. Over 40+ officials have either been arrested or left office. Just in the past 24 hours 5 more left in hopes to get sweetheart deals and avoid prison. The one that is left standing is something like 10th in line because the others above her are either in FBI custody or left the country. So we'll see what happens because she's under investigation for far worse than what Rosello did (if that's even possible). Either way here's a brief timeline of the events - ( AP Report - just before the resignation announcement).
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Post by arsenette on May 17, 2020 12:52:02 GMT -5
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Post by UnrealCanine on May 28, 2020 6:09:06 GMT -5
Hypothetically speaking, if Puerto Rico voted for statehood in Novemeber, how quickly would it become the 51st state? Does it need to be approved in any way, and if it took over 2 years, how would their federal repersentatives fit in?
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Post by arsenette on May 28, 2020 12:03:12 GMT -5
Hypothetically speaking, if Puerto Rico voted for statehood in Novemeber, how quickly would it become the 51st state? Does it need to be approved in any way, and if it took over 2 years, how would their federal repersentatives fit in? Theoretically pretty quickly. (Hawaii and Alaska) Hawaii had their vote in June 27, 1959 and by August 21 they were a state. Alaska's vote was August 26, 1958 and January 3,1959 it was a state. However the problem with Puerto Rico's plebiscites are that they don't match up to precedent. The problem is 2 fold and both are with the vote itself. 1) Participation of the electorate and 2) a super majority. Hawaii voted 94.3% in favor of being a state and Alaska was in the high 80's ( 6:1 ratio I believe when I try to find it). Puerto Rico at best with everyone voting was a statistical tie. Latter votes were partisan votes with only 23% participation rate. Given how violent each vote has become (anyone living there - and I have - can attest how passionate people get about this issue) it stand to note that if the majority are not voting or they do vote and still stays in a tie then the USA won't touch it (regardless of which party is at the helm. No one wants a civil war. But if they get a straight up or down vote (since it's a simple question this time around) AND the participation rate is high AND the super majority (anything above 70% wants to become a state then it can all change quickly. This will happen during this November's election so whoever is President will sign in the law. If all stars align then it would go through their representatives in Congress and send it up the chain. But it has to be a super majority in both acceptance and participation. Otherwise it's pointless (like all the other ones). Puerto Rico already has representatives in Congress (House) but are non-voting members. So they would in turn become voting members along with the rest of the House of Representatives. They would gain senate seats bringing the total to 102 Senators in that chamber. The key to being a state is being allowed to participate in the Presidential elections. Right now in exchange for the current status quo Puerto Rico has they cannot vote in Presidential elections nor have votes in either chambers of Congress affecting the passage of USA law. They can only affect their own laws as it stands now. They don't pay Federal Taxes in exchange.
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Post by Badalight on Nov 5, 2020 3:38:52 GMT -5
aaaaaand here we go again
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Post by arsenette on Nov 5, 2020 11:12:14 GMT -5
aaaaaand here we go again Oh yeah it's pure chaos. To sum up for that vast majority that have no idea wtf is going on. Our island belongs to the USA but we are legally not a part of it. Only states are "part" of the USA in a legal sense and all decisions are now running through congress thanks to what President Obama did in 2015 with enacting PROMESA through executive order when he couldn't get it through Congress. So what that means is that ALL money the island generates (it's entire capita) is diverted to pay off the debt by paying off the hedge funds that the island's government (almost 30 years of corruption thanks to the boom created by the Clinton decisions making the island triple tax exempt and allowing for some really screwy lending practices that led to the housing crash in the USA). That means funding for ALL social services (public safety (i.e. Police), hospitals (several dozen have been forced closed), schools (several hundred closed), sanitation (trash collection, recycling), etc.) is diverted to paying off the debt exclusively. The island is now bankrupt but thanks to Strom Thurman and the democrats (see video earlier explaining that disaster) the island is banned legally from filing for bankruptcy of any kind. In it's place before he was thrown out of office (by a mob that was the literal 1/3 of the entire population showed up at his doorstep (see above for the protests last year) the previous governor instituted the highest sales tax in the USA (10.5%). So everything is expensive, there's no police, crime is through the roof, the housing market crashed, there's no stable water supply or electricity thanks to our 30 years of corruption (regardless of political party) and the people have had enough. The election was between the same 3 parties that caused this mess (Independence party, Statehood party (the New Progressives) and the Status Quo party (Popular Democratic) with literally the same people that run every single time. So after the protests last year 3 NEW parties sprung up on varying versions of anti-corruption platforms. None are ideological based (like pro/anti abortion, etc.) they are purely status based. That is now an all-out war for votes. Turn out was high but more than 1/3 of the voters voted for new parties instead. 6 parties total and there is no consensus. The 2 major parties are within 10,000 votes and the Progressive candidate is claiming victory (again). This is the same a*****e that took over the governorship illegally last year when the previous governor was ousted. It took the Supreme Court of Puerto Rico to throw him out. He's leading but barely. Not sure if there will be a lawsuit as there's been a problem since this summer where the Election commission suppressed votes in the Capital city San Juan and apparently are at it again in the general. I wouldn't be shocked if there is another protest showing up. As for the here we go again - They voted YES by I think 52%? I have to check. Naturally the news is on the USA elections so not many are following the election in Puerto Rico. Regardless I'm positive the vote will be sent to the USA. The original one was there before in 2017 sitting in the house. Pelosi did not bring it to vote (just DC). So we'll see what happens. Many (regardless of political affiliation) just want some sort of decision on the island's fate. Legally they cannot do anything. They can't file for bankruptcy, the governor has no power, the house members in the US house have no vote (been that way since the 1950's - Thanks President Truman) but yay we have American citizenship. It's appalling and everyone is tired of it. Even people that didn't want statehood now want it just so they aren't taxed to death with no jobs and no security. It's a mess. We've already lost over a million of our population (1/4 of the population) in a few months after Maria and they haven't returned. Half a million now live in Florida.
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Post by Badalight on Nov 6, 2020 10:11:13 GMT -5
I'm not gonna claim to be at all knowledgeable on the topic, but I'd wager with a split congress the chances of anything happening are slim.
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Post by arsenette on Nov 7, 2020 7:57:05 GMT -5
I'm not gonna claim to be at all knowledgeable on the topic, but I'd wager with a split congress the chances of anything happening are slim. Yeah. It's a mess.
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Post by UnrealCanine on Nov 23, 2020 8:42:24 GMT -5
Is it really still that unlikely? (Baring in mind I'm a Brit, so very knowledgeable on US legalities) As far as I know, Democrats are for it (mainly so they can add DC/Douglass, although if the 23rd is not repealed thats a cluster**** waiting to happen), whilst Republicans are generally against it, except the Florida senators
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Post by arsenette on Nov 24, 2020 16:53:24 GMT -5
Is it really still that unlikely? (Baring in mind I'm a Brit, so very knowledgeable on US legalities) As far as I know, Democrats are for it (mainly so they can add DC/Douglass, although if the 23rd is not repealed thats a cluster**** waiting to happen), whilst Republicans are generally against it, except the Florida senators No idea. We have our own problems here in the USA. We'll see if anyone does anything past January.
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