arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Jul 10, 2012 23:06:14 GMT -5
This is actually pulled from a couple conversations I had with people in twitter and on the G4 forums and briefly touched on here in one of the episode threads. I've been reading a lot of negativity about the unbalanced runs vs. fluff ratio going on in ANW and in particular the ANW Final in Vegas. Without going into detail about "zomg this sucks, etc" I wanted to discuss the possibility of maybe G4 doing a "Navi". Now, for those who are not familiar with Navi it is a TBS show (short for "Navigational") which is a 1 hour documentary with all the back stories of those TBS is pushing for that tournament. Examples of what it looks like can be found on my blog and even on Youtube (though you have to know how to find it). Either way it airs a day before the start of each Sasuke TBS airing (sometimes same day depending) and airs in the Kanto Region (think Tokyo Region for those geographically challenged ) ANYWAY, the show itself is all fluff. Sometimes you get at the end some runs that they cut form the main broadcast but it's a good way to see the backstory of what has happened to our favorites between tourneys. They have done ANW and even Sasuke Malaysia in this 1 hour segment. Given the size of ANW (far exceeding 100 competitors over 6 regions and finals alone) it might have to be split up per region or even the first half hour of the show? and then ANW itself can be (quoting dudesky) ruthless with their backstory during the actual course runs. That way those who want to see more of the competitors have a way to sit and watch it all and those who just want runs can skip to that. As it stands now the balance is killing the ratings. So, I figured maybe something like this can help strike the balance? Thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by dudesky1000 on Jul 10, 2012 23:28:49 GMT -5
Having thought about it for... a few more minutes since I posted my last post... Yeah, I still think it would be a great, effective way to get the fluff out of the way. Of course, the format and focus of the Navi is always contingent on results... who has notable runs, who will the audience care to watch etc.
It also has its way of hinting at competitors who will NOT be featured on the Navi but will be featured on the main broadcast, as a way of building a surplus of hype at the last moment that will make people even more excited that ON TOP of what they just watched there will still be the consistent favorites whose stories are not as fluffy but whose runs are just as exciting to watch.
As for making multiple "Navi" episodes, it may be necessary given the gigantic scale of each season as the show expands year after year. I mean, I don't know about most other viewers but I personally was getting a little burnt out after 6 weeks of region after region after region, with profiles after profiles after profiles up the wazoo.
Something I wrote on the G4 forum was that on Sasuke, the commentators often say more about the background of the competitor AS they are running the course, not before (with the exception of just about everyone who has made significant progress on the show in the past, but even then sometimes they are not given a profile. Kanno in 27 comes to mind, as well as Orosco in 26. This is because they do not always need profiles to show their results, the commentators explain that for the audience during their run.) This way the comments stay fresh (there is always something different to say during each run), it feels more individualized so its not like 'generic competitor A B C wait for them to fail now' and also because most of the time, the Japanese commentators do something great- they are often in mid-sentence when competitors take a drink, so they really SOUND shocked and excited when something note-worthy happens. So to sum this point up, if they don't spend 3-4 minutes on a profile BEFORE the run of each competitor, Mosely and Iseman won't be stuck with saying things like "Pretty rough through the quad steps" or "That was a pretty good jump on the Jump Hang", instead they can tell the captivating stories during the runs. If they don't make it far enough for their story to be told, then they weren't worth that amount of air time anyway (because many people are mad that a lot of 5 minute profiles lead to quad-step and log grip fails).
The last thing I want to say is that it is not always necessary to include a full-blown profile. Something TBS does so well is use momentum to their advantage. When Kanno was revealed to be the first to run in 27, they were very smart to not do a profile on him, instead they opted for the small square video block in the corner that shows he was once a finalist. What a way to take advantage of shock-value to get a 4-hour show started... ANW editors could learn a lesson or two by watching the sasuke broadcast. It is also very nice how for almost every digest, they include a nice clear photo of the competitor at the bottom of the screen so they at least get face time. But now I am getting off track. Anyway I do think the Navi would solve a lot of problems.
|
|
|
Post by r34gtr on Jul 10, 2012 23:31:44 GMT -5
Whoever's producing this will ruin the premise. As repetitive as the clips of Akiyama, Nagano, and Yuuji hitting the button at the top of the tower are, I don't find them annoying. They'll probably shove it chock-full of their profiles instead of them looking forward to NW...
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Jul 11, 2012 0:04:22 GMT -5
What will they put in it since they put all the backgrounds and sob stories in the main broadcast? Ooh! Maybe they can show the runs!
|
|
|
Post by VenusHeadTrap on Jul 11, 2012 2:42:31 GMT -5
I read half your post Arsenette and I totally agree right off the bat. A little 1 hour pre-show would really benefit ANW. Heck, they use to have pre-shows for ANC before they showed their runs at Sasuke 19, 20, 21 etc. I just cant stand the format of ANW overall. Airing and editing the show is a big job, and they don't seem to have a cohesive team to make it work well.
|
|
|
Post by blah123 on Jul 11, 2012 12:05:51 GMT -5
I agree with everything here, especially what dudesky said. However, the casual viewers might not have the patience/dedication to sit through an entire episode before seeing episodes with runs.
I say this because I consider myself a casual viewer of the X Games and the Olympics. I like watching skateboard finals, gymnastics finals, swim finals, etc. First of all, I'm not going to want to hear the announcers talk about the athletes' stories during the events--I want them to talk about the actual events/races themselves and nothing else. Second, I won't have the patience/prior knowledge/whatever to sit through an episode of back stories a few days earlier--I just want to watch the finals and that's it. Therefore, I'd like to see a quick back story of who it is I'm watching (although not nearly to the degree of fluffyness/sadness that ANW has gone for), then the races.
Of course, ANW is different. And as dudesky said about the Japanese announcers being interrupted mid sentence while giving a back story, I love that. Overall, I think a Navi could be a good idea.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Jul 11, 2012 15:57:02 GMT -5
Well Navi would go on G4 anyway since no one watches that channel But it will find a place to put all those profiles or at least the LONG ones. It serves 2 purposes. 1) to show them for the people that want to see them (like me) and 2) for the competitors who want to see themselves on television. Just like Sasuke this show is filled with non-actors who would otherwise not be on television. Navi by nature is not even a large show. It's shown only in the Kanto region and never factors in ratings but it's for us hardcore who like watching the whole story not just the runs. That way it clears the way to "trim the fat" so to speak on the regular tournament broadcasts. As for announcers that's taste more than anything. One thing that could help is having multiple ones like on TBS. Gives the announcers a break between competitors to keep them fresh and provides a different voice during the day to give variety. We already know that they won't bring the Japanese announcers here so there's no point in even considering it. NBC is way too proud to do that.
|
|
|
Post by higeboshi on Jul 11, 2012 20:40:53 GMT -5
I like this idea and would watch it. Alternatively (or simultaneously), they could batch up profiles for featured and FF'd competitors on a website, which would be visible to quite a few more viewers than the G4 network itself.
On the note of the website, it would be nice to full lists of competitors and results in an easily read format instead of forcing the viewer community to come up with such, which leaves out many of the unshown competitors. I'd add links to tryout vids for non-walkons.
|
|
|
Post by lostinube on Jul 12, 2012 7:40:38 GMT -5
Wait, I don't watch ANW so can some clear something up for me: Are the announcers only doing voice-overs of the runs or are they there live? Because being there and doing their announcing as it happens is the main reason the SASUKE announcers get interrupted mid-sentence.
Also, TBS uses professional (as in that is their job) announcers, mostly with sports announcing backgrounds etc etc
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Jul 12, 2012 8:06:08 GMT -5
It's live as far as I can tell. Maybe a mix...
|
|
|
Post by RiderLeangle on Jul 12, 2012 9:47:13 GMT -5
Wait, I don't watch ANW so can some clear something up for me: Are the announcers only doing voice-overs of the runs or are they there live? Because being there and doing their announcing as it happens is the main reason the SASUKE announcers get interrupted mid-sentence. Also, TBS uses professional (as in that is their job) announcers, mostly with sports announcing backgrounds etc etc Since ANW2 there have been two announcers who are on site, unfortunately they don't have much in the personality department. And for the record they do have backgrounds in sports announcing if I remember correctly... I know Matt does, I forget what Jimmy from ANW2-3 did and I don't know if Johny (ANW4) announced anything, I know he was an olympian but he was a competitor there. Since you haven't seen what it's like here's a random run I found on youtube to show you (And that was one of the shorter profiles)
|
|
|
Post by lostinube on Jul 12, 2012 10:53:36 GMT -5
I remember now: The ANW announcers sound like they are doing DVD commentary in a studio with the crowd noise piped in.
Host and play-by-play announcers are two very different things. Iseman and Moseley are hosts.
The TBS guys are all trained announcers - Almost all of them got into the announcing program (or whatever it's called) at TBS after graduating from university. Any one of them probably has more training and experience than all of the G4 hosts combined.
Finally, I think the nature of SASUKE announcing is influenced by the first announcer, Ichiro Furutachi who I think definitely utilized his pro wrestling announcing skills (think more JR, not Michael Cole).
But that's enough of a derail.
If I remember NBC's Olympic coverage correctly, "concise" is not how one would usually describe it. Anyway, from what I've seen and heard, it's pretty clear that G4/NBC is padding out each episode. They don't need more air time, they need less.
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Jul 12, 2012 12:45:33 GMT -5
Well I never claimed it was good live announcing, but live it is.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Jul 12, 2012 14:29:01 GMT -5
Ube your memory of NBC's Olympic coverage is correct.. NBC in general have never been "concise" Brevity in general is not their strongsuit. Jonny has his own issues. He always sounds stoned.. LOL Thanks for the background on the TBS announcers and DEFINITELY taking cues from Ichiro because he's the announcer I loved listening to the most. I still can't believe they managed to get him for Sasuke considering his fame.
|
|
|
Post by KinnikuBanzukeÜberAlles on Jul 12, 2012 17:32:45 GMT -5
Does the live crowd get to hear Iseman and Moseley's commentating, or are they just talking to the home viewers? That's probably another difference.
Iseman and Moseley are no different than the usual bland and inoffensive American national broadcast network sports announcers.
The American equivalent of the SASUKE announcers would be the yahoo homer local radio sports announcers that can yell and scream, and rant and rave with the best of them.
|
|
|
Post by UnrealCanine on Jul 12, 2012 19:49:32 GMT -5
If I ever had a chance to compete, I think I'd prefer 'redubbed' commentary to be honest
|
|
|
Post by lostinube on Jul 12, 2012 21:36:17 GMT -5
Does the live crowd get to hear Iseman and Moseley's commentating, or are they just talking to the home viewers? That's probably another difference. Iseman and Moseley are no different than the usual bland and inoffensive American national broadcast network sports announcers. The American equivalent of the SASUKE announcers would be the yahoo homer local radio sports announcers that can yell and scream, and rant and rave with the best of them. Gus Johnson begs to differ.
|
|
|
Post by sentinel on Jul 18, 2012 3:47:56 GMT -5
I really don't see how they could do this. You have to keep in mind the average viewer, not the average SasukeManiac poster.
The whole thing about the back stories is to make the competitors people, rather than just anonymous "entities" running the course. So if you take out the back stories in the primary broadcast and put them all in the Navi, the average viewer will never see the back stories, and thus the competitors will be completely generic. The average viewer will thus not be invested in whether the competitor fails or succeeds, because the average viewer either won't be aware of the Navi, won't have G4 to watch the Navi, or is so casual that they will have a hard time remembering who is who because the back story clips aren't immediately followed by that person running the course.
Sure, it'd be a better viewing experience for us because we're already so familiar with so many of the people, but the average/casual viewer would have a hard time keeping track and remembering who is who if there is a separation between the back story and the running of the course itself.
*edit - and personally, I think it would be kind of boring to just see person after person after person running the course. It would be so repetitive, especially with how repetitive the commentary is.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Jul 18, 2012 4:03:12 GMT -5
Btw sentinel I see what you are thinking on this. This was mostly in response to the gross unbalance of runs vs stories right now. This I was suggesting is in addition (only to run on G4 similar to navi in Japan only in Kanto region) to the broadcast but find a place where they could expand on the people rather than show the stories at length disrupting the flow of runs. I think a balance of the 2 is what is in order because keeping it the way it is or cutting the stories out entirely is not the way to go. Again, Sasuke does this very well as they hint at the stories that ran earlier in navi while shortening them enough to keep the momentum going. All in under 3-4 hours for the entire tournament. Heck.. ANW4's stage 1 lasted what.. 5 hours?
|
|
|
Post by Oti on Jul 18, 2012 4:41:13 GMT -5
BUT ARSENETTE. WE NEED EVERYONE ELSE TO EXPLAIN TO US HOW THE AVERAGE VIEWER SEES THINGS/WANTS THINGS/WHATEVER!
|
|