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Post by Badalight on Feb 21, 2012 14:53:14 GMT -5
Lol, you think after 34 it's only downhill? You are SORELY mistaken.
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Post by Oti on Feb 21, 2012 14:59:23 GMT -5
I'm sure Arsenette will rip you a new one for not recognizing Yuuji's skill. In the mean time... You think Yuuji's final stage in 27 was easy? Sure, why not? But Nagano's entire course was easier. Look, I've met both of them in person and I love Nagano tons more, but from a strict training standpoint, Yuuji is probably in better shape (using that term loosely here). They both had a crack at stage three in 27, which practically comes down to nothing but raw strength and stamina. There are very few flukes there. You either got it or you don't. And what happened on that faithful UCH? Nagano ran out of gas and Yuuji did not. This is a hint that Yuuji probably has more stamina than Nagano. It's possible that this isn't the case, but I don't believe it. I feel Yuuji is the better conditioned athlete here. 34 is far from a peak due to age. Men can continue progressing with relatively little trouble until their mid 40's, later with proper training, diet and recovery. Age is only a number. Hell, there are 70 year old men who set personal records in deadlifts. It's never too late to be in the best shape of your life. I ask you the same couple of questions I asked sentinel: How do you know David so well? How do you know he's peaking? How do you know his maximum potential? What if he shed some fat, started lifting to build some real power and upped his conditioning instead of spending so much time on the obstacles? He'd be in tons better shape ON TOP OF already being able to squash every obstacle. That's why I can't stand this armchair speculation BS. Nobody seems to think anymore before jumping to a conclusion. I remember a few years ago when Nagano and his buddies were failing stage one and two consistently. For like five competitions straight, X's across the board. First topics to appear? "IS NAGANO TOO OLD?!" "ARE THE ALL STARS FINISHED?!" siiggghhhhhhLook, the logical conclusion here is that David always has the edge over Levi when it comes to ANW because that's what David trains for. Levi is a free runner/performer first and hits up ANW for fun (unless this has changed..?). Levi may work hard at ANW (he has a few training videos on Youtube, so it must be on his mind from time to time), but David lives it.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 21, 2012 15:11:06 GMT -5
I'm sure Arsenette will rip you a new one for not recognizing Yuuji's skill. LOL I don't bother since most of these predictions are made from a non-athlete watching something on TV and not knowing a thing about physical fitness to break it down logically. The bigger issue for me though is that I refuse to tear down someone else to raise someone up. I have no issues having multiple favorites based on more than "results". That's what makes Sasuke to me And yes.. I love Yuuji. It's a shame that man doesn't get respect from people even when he won the entire course twice. He's not everyone's cup of tea but isn't the the WHOLE point of Sasuke? /sigh
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Post by Badalight on Feb 21, 2012 15:27:57 GMT -5
I don't think people hate Yuuji in particular, but I do think his victories may have been underwhelming to people. Nagano won after 13 straight tournaments of failure. Yuuji ended an era after only 7 tournaments, and then again after only 3. Sasuke was a bit more special to me when there were less victories, it made it seem more impossible. I don't think people are discrediting Yuuji, at least not on purpose. They just are disheartened at what Sasuke has become.
This is super off topic though so I'll end that here.
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Post by sentinel on Feb 21, 2012 15:55:11 GMT -5
Levi lacks raw, physical strength and that's apparent when he runs the course. No, it really isn't apparent. What's apparent is that your jealousy of Levi is getting extremely pathetic, which is evidenced on your countless YouTube comments tearing him down (Oti actually once said he has a better chance of winning than Levi Meeuwenberg, lol). You really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to strength and athleticism, which, judging by your performance in ANW 2, isn't surprising. How do you not overcome your weight? Are you serious? Because all the workouts in the world don't change your FRAME and height, and putting more muscle on is also putting even more weight on. How do I know there's a limit? Because someone like LeBron James could never, ever, ever win. It's not because he's not athletic or not strong; it's because his physical body prevents it. Just so we're clear, David is a great, great competitor - you flailed awkwardly through the ANW2 qualifying course. And I'm not tearing ANYONE down (except for Oti). Yuuji is an all-time top 2 great, maybe the great of all time. David is my obvious #2 for American competitors.
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Post by Shuberb674 on Feb 21, 2012 16:32:11 GMT -5
On the weight issue, I have question. Do you think it is coincidence that Yuuji, Akiyama and Nagano were all between 5ft2 and 5ft4. No, i think not.
And besides, I do not hate yuuji, i never said i did, i just slightly prefer Nagano. Am i not allowed my own opinion?
And on the subject of yuuji beating the uch and nagano not.... He's a god damn unlicliffer of course he will be better at the cliffhanger!
And nagano has a family, he's got better things to do with his life, I imagine being a fisherman is a very tiring job.
But yes, i am off topic so i'll stop the nagano-yuuji thing. And i agree with you completely, sentinal.
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Post by Oti on Feb 21, 2012 17:36:16 GMT -5
No, it really isn't apparent. What's apparent is that your jealousy of Levi is getting extremely pathetic, which is evidenced on your countless YouTube comments tearing him down (Oti actually once said he has a better chance of winning than Levi Meeuwenberg, lol). It's quite apparent if you know anything about strength training. The way Levi flails on upper body obstacles. The way he struggled to lift the walls in stage two. David doesn't do these things. He moves gently and with precision. Strength. Levi HAS improved greatly since his debut in 20, but David still has him beat I feel. As for the comments, I'd like a link where I straight up say that I have a better chance than Levi. If it exists (which I admit is possible, I used to be such a cranky, overconfident thing), I bet it's over three years old. The only opinion I maintain of Levi is that he's a bit too cocky on the course. I know he plays it off as just his free running side emerging, but I don't like it. And now that Flip started doing it... Ugh. You really have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to strength and athleticism, which, judging by your performance in ANW 2, isn't surprising. I don't have an idea? I'm not even going to touch this one. I know what I know, and the people of this forum are on my side. Bada and I bicker about everything under the sun and even he'll admit that I know my stuff. And I like how your lack of argument has just led to you trying to insult me. Last time I checked, I cleared ANW2. How did you do again? Oh, wait... How do you not overcome your weight? Are you serious? Because all the workouts in the world don't change your FRAME and height, and putting more muscle on is also putting even more weight on. How do I know there's a limit? Because someone like LeBron James could never, ever, ever win. It's not because he's not athletic or not strong; it's because his physical body prevents it. You're aware that you can lose weight, right? Or more importantly, you can gain strength, right? Without gaining muscle? YOU of all people must know this, given how you make yourself out to be so knowledgable. And the limit... how about this. Find me someone who is 6' 8", 250 lbs with minimal body fat, high levels of strength, conditioning and sport specific practice (replica training) and see how they do on the course. Lebron would fail because he doesn't train to run the course or have relevant practice, same as anyone else in his position. It's not that he's too big or too heavy. He's untrained to run the course and he's not strong enough to carry his weight. Easy. Just so we're clear, David is a great, great competitor - you flailed awkwardly through the ANW2 qualifying course. And this changes my point how? David has great skill, but lacks what it takes to win (the raw strength and conditioning, although he's working on it I'm sure). It's obvious that from 26 to 27, his normal training DID NOT WORK. This isn't a big deal, as long as he learns from it, and there's probably about a 100% chance of that happening. I, on the other hand, had only ever run a course once, and that too was a crappy G4 copy (Ninjafest 4, representin'). I had no Rope Swing at home. No Warped Wall. No Jumping Bars. If I recall correctly... David had all these things. Does this take away from David's skill? Noooope. Does this put me at a disadvantage? Yeeeeep. So it is surprising he did so well and I didn't make the top 30? Not reaallllyyyy. Does any of this actually matter? Nooooooooope. And I'm not tearing ANYONE down (except for Oti). Gonna have to try harder. Your logic is minimal at best and you haven't shown me any signs that you know what you're talking about when it comes to training of any kind. Getting HUGE amounts of butthurt from your sector, though... On the weight issue, I have question. Do you think it is coincidence that Yuuji, Akiyama and Nagano were all between 5ft2 and 5ft4. No, i think not. I think otherwise. Everybody always thinks they do well because they're light. They do well and they JUST HAPPEN TO BE light. I recall a particularly large, scary man in the 3rd competition who did rather well in the third stage, up until he broke it at least. It's a strength to weight thing. A heavy person can do just as well as I light person, they just have to be stronger than that light person. And on the subject of yuuji beating the uch and nagano not.... He's a god damn unlicliffer of course he will be better at the cliffhanger! Which is true, but so is the fact that because he "cliffs" so much, he has better upper body conditioning, something that helped him blaze through not only the UCH, but the rest of stage three. And nagano has a family, he's got better things to do with his life, I imagine being a fisherman is a very tiring job. Very true, another reason why Yuuji is potentially more skilled than Nagano. Yuuji CAN have all his replicas. He CAN relax when he needs to and train hard when he's fresh. Nagano's on a boat most of the time, although hopefully less since his son was born.
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Post by Shuberb674 on Feb 21, 2012 17:42:23 GMT -5
Was the big scary guy who did rather well that Travis shraeder guy. Wasn't he in sasuke 4. And what did he break?
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Post by Badalight on Feb 21, 2012 17:56:31 GMT -5
Sentinel, insulting Oti does not make your point valid. Oti knows what he is talking about. I highly doubt you do. In fact, I know you don't. Your posts have proven that.
I am 6ft tall. Does that mean I have a disadvantage on the course? In some places yes, in others no. I think I have an advantage on obstacles such as the warped wall. Even if I lack the skill to complete it, my height can help me compensate for that. In stage 3 it IS detrimental, but you're saying it's IMPOSSIBLE for me?
Give me a break. It means I have to train harder, sure, but it's not impossible. Hell I don't think it's even THAT big of a disadvantage. I weigh 165 lbs and I can do my cliff-hanger with a 40 LB weighted vest on. That takes me to 205 total LB's I am carrying. For the record, I don't consider myself even close to the level of David in the stage 3 department. As long as I build up the strength and endurance for stage 3 my height and weight don't matter.
Also, you can't simply say Levi is a better athlete than David, nor the other way around. They both have their obvious strengths and weaknesses. Levi has great speed, balance, quickness, etc. David doesn't excel in those areas, but he does beat out Levi in other categories. Strength, Endurance, Technique. David has Levi beat.
And in my opinion, David has a better chance of getting total victory. He has shown he can pass stages 1 and 2 flawlessly. He has the fastest stage 1 time on record. He can actually make good attempts at stage 3 and I bet he'd put up a good fight in stage 4.
Levi I see destroying stage 1 and 2 like always (barring slight mistakes like the slider drop). However, I can't even picture him beating the shin-cliffhanger, forget about the UCH. He's not built for it. If he trained for it then yes he could do it, but that's not where his specialties lie.
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Post by Oti on Feb 21, 2012 18:04:40 GMT -5
Big scary guy was Travis, yes. I just like referring to him as "big scary guy". He tore the pipe from the Pipe Slider off its track. They DQ'd him, which was stupid because he was still going.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Feb 21, 2012 22:13:14 GMT -5
Big scary guy was Travis, yes. I just like referring to him as "big scary guy". He tore the pipe from the Pipe Slider off its track. They DQ'd him, which was stupid because he was still going. Actually the explanation was simple. Had the safety rope not being attached he would have been swimming. That's why he was DQ'ed.
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Post by Oti on Feb 21, 2012 23:55:16 GMT -5
I never really thought of it that way. I guess you're right. Maaannnn, I miss Travis. I wish Aaron Bryant hadn't quit. I understand his reasoning, but still. He was like our Yamada, kinda. Always there, yet never did as well as we all knew he could. It won't be the same.
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Post by Badalight on Feb 22, 2012 0:47:03 GMT -5
Why did he quit?
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Post by sentinel on Feb 22, 2012 1:34:41 GMT -5
Let me break down what I am saying in a different, step by step way.
I do not believe just anyone can beat Sasuke, and that all it takes is X amount of dedication and Y amount of training. I think there are many millions of people who, no matter how many years they trained and how hard they went, would not be able to beat all four stages.
There are such things as natural ability that come into play, as well as body type/frame. Yao Ming could train for ten years and still not develop the athleticism and type of strength needed to pass the course.
The point is, training can only take a person so far. It can only accomplish so much. And for two+ years now, what I know about David Campbell is that he is as dedicated of an American competitor as they come. To my knowledge, it has been more or less his singular goal, and this is shown via the numerous video packages of him training on his backyard course.
So, now what? He was 100% dedicated before... but now he's extra super 100% dedicated? I'm not saying, necessarily, that we have absolutely certainly seen David Campbell at his peak, but how much more upside could he possibly have?
As far as Levi goes, it's completely unfair to say "Well, he didn't beat the Shin Cliffhanger, so it's clear he couldn't beat the UCH!" because you're comparing two different eras of Sasuke, and with that, two different levels of expectations.
There's been many people who struggled to different degrees at earlier cliffhangers, only to surpass themselves (with ease) on later ones. Why? Because the bar had been raised, and pretty much all of the elite competitors train to meet that bar. To level that claim against Levi would be like me saying "If Koji Hashimoto faced the Shin Cliffhanger four years ago, he'd certainly have passed it easily, because of Sasuke 27!" It's not an accurate way to look at things.
Not to mention that Levi was, what, 21 years old for Sasuke 20? At most? Very few people are by any means a "man" by that age, and I'd guess he's developed further since then. And as far as endurance goes, I once again point to ANW2 Boot camp when Levi ran the course twice and still got the two fastest times (and that includes David Campbell). Is that 100% proof he's got more endurance? Of course not, but it's worth noting -- at least enough to be relevant to people making the claim that David obviously has the endurance edge.
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Post by Badalight on Feb 22, 2012 1:48:49 GMT -5
You're discrediting David who has consistently been one of the best on the course.
Also, you're still under the assumption that David has no room for improvement. Of course he does. Just because he's been training for 2 years doesn't mean he'll stop getting better.
I played soccer for 15 years of my life. I never stopped improving. From ages 13-15 (2 years) I gave 100% dedication, but guess what? 3 more year of 100% dedication made me even better.
You're saying David has peaked and he has not. You're saying he never has a chance because of his body which is wrong. This isn't an opinion you are WRONG.
I can't give Sasuke 27 spoilers in here, but things could've been a lot different if David was even slightly more prepared than he was.
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Post by mikessssssss on Feb 22, 2012 8:01:52 GMT -5
I played soccer for 15 years of my life. I never stopped improving. From ages 13-15 (2 years) I gave 100% dedication, but guess what? 3 more year of 100% dedication made me even better. But, no matter how hard you train you will never be as good as Lionel Messi. You will be better, but not Messi good. I think that is what he is getting at. Although im not sure 'skill' really comes into play for sasuke. What Sentinel is saying links back to his notion that height/weight is where the difference lies. Why can't the words strongest man complete stage 3 of sasuke? Or could he? i mean, he is the strongest person in the world. I understand what you guys are saying, but i too believe that the lighter you are the easier it is. All the elite level Japanese competitors are small and light and just that bit better than David, who is the best American. However, we will now be seeing many examples of bigger people tackling the course so i'd be more than happy to be proved wrong. Also the flaming is stupid.
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Post by wrestlingfan55 on Feb 22, 2012 13:16:11 GMT -5
Oti, about that comment on Nagano and the UCH, I believe he had the endurance (he made it look easier than all the Americans who trained on it) but simply didn't know how to catch the small ledge. Look at how he traversed along the third ledge (which many have struggled on, including David) with such ease. If it wasn't for the UCH, he MAY have failed the Chain See-Saw, but he probably would have won again, in my opinion.
I agree, though, that Yuuji is better for Stages 3 and 4, but his major weaknesses are his balance and that he rushes, while Nagano takes his time and doesn't rush. Yuuji is simply the best competitor at the moment.
In my opinion, David is consistent but doing consistently well doesn't mean you have a better chance of winning. I remember people saying that David and Lee have the best chance at Kanzenseiha, because they're consistent. However, Nagano and Yuuji are inconsistent, yet I beleive they'd be the best choice.
It's about who's the BEST, not whose the most consistent.
I know this may sound silly, but when I think of who could win Sasuke, I think of the competitors who are the most "ninja-like":
So there's (the competitors in order, I think):
Speed (Nagano, Levi, Shingo, Kong) Agility (The above, Takeda, Lee, Ryo) Balance (Nagano, Takeda, Kong, Ryo) Cardio (Yuuji, Levi, Shingo, Ryo, Nagano) Grip (Yuuji, Nagano, Ryo, Hashimoto, Brent Steffenson) Endurance (Yuuji, Nagano, Ryo, Brent) Adaptability (Nagano, Hashimoto, Okuyama, Shingo)
I actually believe that Brent Steffenson is the best American competitor. He looks like the best conditioned athlete and I think he has the best chance, of the Americans, to win.
Sentinel, I actually agree with a lot of your points and I agree that Oti is jealous of Levi, because he's done well at Sasuke.
Sorry for the long post.
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Post by blah123 on Feb 22, 2012 13:30:11 GMT -5
Isn't this board supposed to be about ANW4 predictions?
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Post by Badalight on Feb 22, 2012 13:31:33 GMT -5
What am I even reading here.
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Post by Oti on Feb 22, 2012 14:48:35 GMT -5
He said he hated what ANW has become and how it's all about the fame and money now. I disagree with that and counter with, "Well if you don't like the money, donate it to charity or something," but it's ultimately his choice. *** I do not believe just anyone can beat Sasuke, and that all it takes is X amount of dedication and Y amount of training. I think there are many millions of people who, no matter how many years they trained and how hard they went, would not be able to beat all four stages. Why? Everyone can be strong. Everyone can improve their stamina. Everyone could learn to beat replicas and run a course. What stops a person from being successful on the course? Just their frame? That's like saying tall people can't lift well because they have longer levers than short people and are at a disadvantage in the meet. They ARE at a disadvantage, but there are plenty of tall people who lift a lot of weight. There are such things as natural ability that come into play, as well as body type/frame. Yao Ming could train for ten years and still not develop the athleticism and type of strength needed to pass the course. They come into play, but they're not deciding factors. I bet Yao Ming could make it to stage three easily if he trained properly for ten years. The right kind of strength training, replica practice. Wouldn't even need 10 years, I bet. The point is, training can only take a person so far. It can only accomplish so much. This statement tells me you've never worked hard to overcome disadvantages and make significant progress. Training and dedication are the most crucial factors, not natural talent. So, now what? He was 100% dedicated before... but now he's extra super 100% dedicated? I'm not saying, necessarily, that we have absolutely certainly seen David Campbell at his peak, but how much more upside could he possibly have? A lot, provided he changes his training. I'm with you when it comes to the fact that he's probably maxed out his progress with his replicas and his current training methods. I agree with that. But to think he's maxed out completely (or close to it), though, is just plain wrong. He could get double body weight pull-ups and squats for reps and easily reach a new level in his training. He's got tons of options. *** But, no matter how hard you train you will never be as good as Lionel Messi. You will be better, but not Messi good. I think that is what he is getting at. Although im not sure 'skill' really comes into play for sasuke. This is a flaw in thought, confidence and determination. How do champions ever lose if this is true? How were Ali or Tyson finally beaten if this is true? Why do any of us train if we can never be as good (or better) than the best? What Sentinel is saying links back to his notion that height/weight is where the difference lies. Why can't the words strongest man complete stage 3 of sasuke? Or could he? i mean, he is the strongest person in the world. Because strength is specific and the men who compete in strongman competitions don't have the specific strength (or other types of training) for Sasuke or ANW. You can't pick up 400 lb boulders and throw kegs around a beach all day and then think you're ready for Sasuke/ANW. That kind of stuff doesn't carry over. That's why relative no ones like David and Levi can do well on the course when Olympic gold medalists - the BEST of the BEST - often fail miserably in the first or second stage. Relevant training makes the difference. I understand what you guys are saying, but i too believe that the lighter you are the easier it is. Nobody is arguing with that. Being lighter does make it easier. But it's not the deciding factor, and through proper strength training and conditioning, a 200+ lb man can do just as well as the lightweight Japanese competitors. However, we will now be seeing many examples of bigger people tackling the course so i'd be more than happy to be proved wrong. I'm excited to see this as well. I'm personally considering bulking to 180 lbs or so just for fun, but we'll see how that goes. Also the flaming is stupid. 100% agreed. I love you, mikes. *** Oti, about that comment on Nagano and the UCH, I believe he had the endurance (he made it look easier than all the Americans who trained on it) but simply didn't know how to catch the small ledge. Look at how he traversed along the third ledge (which many have struggled on, including David) with such ease. If it wasn't for the UCH, he MAY have failed the Chain See-Saw, but he probably would have won again, in my opinion. I disagree with you. Watching 27, Nagano clearly grabbed the tiny ledge with ease. When his body came down, however, his forearms and fingers were too tired and his fingers were torn from the ledge. It's about who's the BEST, not whose the most consistent. I agree. Nagano proved this back in the day when he'd make it most of the way through stage three one competitor and bite it in the first stage the next competition. Sentinel, I actually agree with a lot of your points and I agree that Oti is jealous of Levi, because he's done well at Sasuke. We all got opinions, broski. *** Isn't this board supposed to be about ANW4 predictions? NOOOOOO. Wait. Oops.
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