arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Apr 18, 2020 13:10:59 GMT -5
In other news.. my preordered Switch with Animal Crossing arrives this week.. ehem.. Yep.. I'll officially be part of the dark side™ soon..
|
|
|
Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Apr 18, 2020 22:37:26 GMT -5
Have fun! I will NOT be joining you. Never was a fan of Animal Crossing.
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Apr 19, 2020 3:20:25 GMT -5
Started ff7. 3 hours in or so.
Nitpicks so far:
- An action combat system with no combos and no jump button feels terrible. - Staggering still sucks. - Not being able to navigate menus with the control stick is very annoying. - Not being able to customize controls is bad. This is a ps4 game and it won't let me map the controls? What era of gaming are we in? - I don't like the new version of my favorite song. - Too many sections where the game forces me to walk at the pace of a snail. Either make it a cutscene or let me go at normal speeds. I hate holding down forward for 3 minutes while the characters are having conversations 15 feet in front of me. - The game is very linear so far. I expected the game to have more exploration. - I do not like the English Voice acting. To change the voice acting, you have to exit out of the entire game (not even just returning to the title screen works, you have to reload the entire thing. - The Sephiroth stuff so far feels like fan-fiction. Actually, the first few seconds I was like "oh, of course Cloud would have a flashback to that moment after seeing fire. That makes total sense." But then the scene just went on and on and on for like another 5 minutes. Good grief. - Why do characters need to act like I'm 5 years old? Yes Jesse, I see the stairs. You don't have to explain that to get onto the second floor of the building that I need to take the stairs. You certainly don't need to pause the game for 20 seconds to tell me that, zoom in the stairs, and then finally give me control again. - Did we really need to change the end of the bombing mission to make our heroes look like less bad people? I really liked how it played out in the original. We were terrorists - no bones about it. In this one our explosion was tiny and it was only because Shinra interfered that people got hurt. BAD COMPANY IS BAD. GOOD GUYS ARE GOOD. That gets rid of some of the nuance. - Was guard scorpion balanced with the thought that players would use items? This is a very personal thing, but I don't like using consumables in games. Man that fight was f***ing tougher than it needed to be. - Hitting triangle to talk to someone and having to wait like 15 seconds before the dialogue starts because your teammates aren't in the perfect position, or something. Happens to much and it makes me angry. - Why do I have to crawl underneath so many thins and scoot past so many barriers? - Saving takes like an entire minute, I swear. - These god awful side quests. Saving cats? Really? - Man the girls are THIRSTY in this game. In the original, Tifa's main motivation for being close to Cloud was because his story of the past didn't line up. They weren't super great childhood friends. She's acting like we were BFFs. And Jesse is just... wow. Chill girl. - The dodge is pretty much useless.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Apr 20, 2020 11:04:34 GMT -5
Meow Bada™ Uhm.. you CAN map the controls.. and hotkeys.. not sure where you are saying you can't. Yes the menu is weird when it comes to figuring stuff like that but it's definitely there. As for the slowness of some controls I hear ya loud and clear and I hate how floaty it would be.. like I have to stand RIGHT at the spot and not a hair in any direction. As for story content up to Chapter 3 vs. original.. not sure where you are getting that it's different. We only had 2 overhead scenes and everyone screaming and running in the original with Jessie wondering what went wrong. She said a couple times that the blast should not have been that big. This version shows that actions have consequences. WE know Shinra made the explosion worse (both versions had this and it was obvious to us as players and never obvious to anyone else in game) but they get to see that what they are doing is killing people. If anything I feel the exact opposite of you. They feel like terrorists here. They make you walk through the streets and hear the people crying. Right before this they were all excited and planned for a year to do this. Everyone (except Cloud) was shocked at the result and even had some second thoughts but ultimately decided that the risk was worth it even if people died. The stakes are raised higher because they believe they did this and they are OKAY with it. THAT is a terrorist borderline sociopath. So no, to me it doesn't seem that they are making Avalanche "good". Both versions of the game they realized what they did in the aftermath and vowed to continue. This one just makes you stew in your horribleness. As for the rest of your qualms I feel ya. Battlewise I'm not that averse to the gameplay because to me it feels like Mass Effect 2-3 tbh. You get more stuff to do as you get more skills and build speed. I'm still on Classic with some normal elements (like using the attack button and moving the characters myself). And given that I may actually play this on Normal and if I'm feeling cheeky I'll go for the platinum which requires hard mode. It's not a Platinum game and I never expected it to be. Remember this was a damn turn based so the fact I'm moving around I'm still salty about. Storywise/pace I'm totally fine with actually listening to the dialogue. The world feels great and I love the English voice acting. Preference I'm sure but they did a great job recasting everyone to match the tone of the original non-voiced 1997 version. I find myself laughing outloud often. As for being forced to switch in the menu that's how it loads the whole thing since just about everything is context sensitive. And yes I expected Midgar to be linear. It was in the original. We didn't get open world until we left. Not entirely sure why you thought this would be different. The original dealt with locking people out of sections by putting an invisible wall. This one does the same but gives cues to the player where to go. Given this isn't top down sprites.. I appreciate it.. I almost got lost in the subways.. As for Sephiroth. Stop playing now. If you hate what is going on now. Just quit the game. It's a LOT more expanded.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Apr 20, 2020 11:05:29 GMT -5
Have fun! I will NOT be joining you. Never was a fan of Animal Crossing. Aww.. P.S. another clip from FF7R (non spoiler). Just something funny I found.
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Apr 20, 2020 17:24:24 GMT -5
Meow Bada™ Uhm.. you CAN map the controls.. and hotkeys.. not sure where you are saying you can't. Yes the menu is weird when it comes to figuring stuff like that but it's definitely there. As for the slowness of some controls I hear ya loud and clear and I hate how floaty it would be.. like I have to stand RIGHT at the spot and not a hair in any direction. Where can you map the controls? The only thing I found was that you can change which moves were mapped to your quick selection (L1+X, L1+O, etc...) I haven't found anything else. Point taken. That's my issue here. Square Enix has been moving away from turn based games for a long time now, for some reason... I think they have this weird belief that people hate turn based games. However, they are also too afraid to just make a straight up action game. All of their attempts have been these weird hybrids. FF13, KH, FF15, and now FF7 Remake... If they don't want to make a turn-based game, then just make an action game. In my mind, this feels like a bad turn based game and a bad action game smashed together. It certainly is "unique" which has made it kind of fun at times... but more often than not it's frustrating. If I try to play it as an action game, I'm constantly disappointed. I have very little control over my character. The dodge is bad on purpose because if it were good, the game would be a cakewalk. It's not designed around being an action game. It's designed around building up your ATB bar and switching between characters. That's fine and all but... just make it turn based in that case. It's not like the original game was boring. You'd rarely be waiting due to the nature of the active time battle system. It was actually pretty stressful and engaging to navigate through the menus quickly. Like, it may not seem like it, but I am not picky when it comes to gameplay. I love turn based games. I love action games. I even love bad action games. I've played the Dynasty Warriors series my entire life and those games have less depth than a piece of paper. But as an action game, even Dynasty Warriors which has been the industry standard for "button mashing gameplay" has more depth compared to the action portions of ff7 remake. I just want the game to decide what it is and go for it. It doesn't have to re-invent the wheel, and you can still have a unique combat system as either an action game or a turn based game. Agree to disagree on the English voice acting. I am playing it in English though. There's too much dialogue in this game going on at all times for me to be able to realistically keep up if I played in Japanese. I love the banter. I just wish I knew enough Japanese to be able to play in Japanese. Sure, it was in the original. But this game has always talked about expanding Midgar and the story. They are turning a 5 hour section into a 30+ hour game. One would expect a larger world. They have done that, to some extent. I just wish it was done more and that this game wasn't constant hallways. You can say its context relevant, but what will the excuse be when the same thing is done in the sequels? This game is no different than FF13 in that respect, and FF13 got crucified for its linearity. I'm not sure why more people aren't upset with it here. lol, I'm aware of many things. It's better I know now than experience them as surprises because I'd probably throw my controller and stop playing. At least this way I can go in with the right expectations and try to enjoy the game for what it is rather than what I want it to be.
|
|
|
Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Apr 20, 2020 21:18:04 GMT -5
Have fun! I will NOT be joining you. Never was a fan of Animal Crossing. Aww.. It's called, getting eaten by tarantulas, scorpions, and THE WASPS! THE WASPS!!!
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Apr 21, 2020 6:55:19 GMT -5
**Map control/Gamestyle shift/dialogue heavy/linear** lol, I'm aware of many things. It's better I know now than experience them as surprises because I'd probably throw my controller and stop playing. At least this way I can go in with the right expectations and try to enjoy the game for what it is rather than what I want it to be. Totally agree with not liking the shift away from RPG style combat. I blame your generation. LOL That was what I was talking about when it came to mapping stuff. Because you don't have control over jumping and other mechanics you at least have the mapping aspect given to you. I don't play with them at all (mapping to buttons since I use tactical mode a LOT) but I'm confused as to what else you want to control? You can't jump natively nor can you punch or throw grenades.. so outside of not using the mapping to controller option I'm still unsure what else you want.. other than another engine. As for not being able to pull off combos I'm not sure what you are talking about. I still think you would have benefited from playing the demo. Hell look at Max's combo videos.. the stuff he can pull off with the combat I still can't do because I haven't delved into Normal or Hard mode mapping buttons. I play with the subtitles on and everything pops on the left for the NPC's and bottom for everything else. Then again I'm female so I can split my attention better than a guy (that's not a rip - that's scientific fact where females can multitask conversation while men can hyper focus on one thing better than women.) and Don actually can't keep up with the massive dialogue unless he stops to listen to it (which this game allows you to do since it's not on rails. I still suggest to play it in Japanese if you prefer that. With subtitles you can slow down to listen to them and the stuff thrown out mid-combat is just repeated phrases that by chapter 4 you would have memorized by now. I happen to love the English but that's always been a preference thing for people when playing multi-languaged games. I still think you are bitching too much about the linear aspect. For the love of everything holy this is not FF13 by any stretch of the imagination. The story sucked, the gameplay sucked and the story sucked. People hated the game because it was boring as hell and they retconned their own game to get 2 sequels out to make the protagonist chick into a feminist god.. There are FAR bigger things as to why 13 failed. 7 is not at all and hasn't been and the remake is nowhere near coming to that failure. Again you are expecting more than the original product but then b**** when they expand on it. Fact of the matter you are upset it was not a carbon copy but with pretty graphics. YOU AND I AGREE.. but I already knew they were going to change this and I am liking the changes and expansion of story. You don't. I still think you need to just expect a different game in the lore of the original. IMO they keep the same tone and make things more pronounced. Bombing run you had 3 screens and 2 sets of dialogue in the original and now they give you 2 chapters to actually go and really get attached to the characters and world. By the time the inevitable happens you give a damn this time around. In the original I did not have any attachment to anyone in Midgar. Like.. at all. It was just a geographical place where the protagonists had cool scenes. Instead now it's a living breathing world with people and stories (some boring, some interesting, some disturbing) and the actions within that space are no longer just detached from it. Now you feel the gravitas of your actions, their actions and overall dread that lingers. This is set up the game. I'm already seeing things that are not being addressed in this game but setting up for the future games. You didn't get that in the original because it was 1 full game with a simpler storyline. If you still want to keep playing I'd suggest you do your last line and stop expecting something that was never advertised. We ain't getting a carbon copy with a pretty veneer as much as you and I wanted. Expect a different experience and judge it against itself and not your (or my) original experience from 23 years ago. After all in the end you have to decide if the journey is worth continuing to 2-3 or even 4 games into the future. You won't go crazy that way. Aww.. It's called, getting eaten by tarantulas, scorpions, and THE WASPS! THE WASPS!!! Absolutely understand for those who have arachnophobia and other things bitey insecty things. You can catch them so they don't sting you but the idea that they do I can completely understand is terrifying. My sincere condolences. Heck I won't play Fallout (any version) because they have mutated giant cockroaches that are hard to kill and chase you!.. I mean OMG..
|
|
|
Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Apr 21, 2020 14:54:12 GMT -5
I know you can catch them but they’re so aggressive and fast good luck successfully doing so without getting bit/stung in the process. I shudder at what happens when you black out afterwards...
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Apr 21, 2020 19:20:17 GMT -5
**Map control/Gamestyle shift/dialogue heavy/linear** lol, I'm aware of many things. It's better I know now than experience them as surprises because I'd probably throw my controller and stop playing. At least this way I can go in with the right expectations and try to enjoy the game for what it is rather than what I want it to be. Totally agree with not liking the shift away from RPG style combat. I blame your generation. LOL That was what I was talking about when it came to mapping stuff. Because you don't have control over jumping and other mechanics you at least have the mapping aspect given to you. I don't play with them at all (mapping to buttons since I use tactical mode a LOT) but I'm confused as to what else you want to control? You can't jump natively nor can you punch or throw grenades.. so outside of not using the mapping to controller option I'm still unsure what else you want.. other than another engine. As for not being able to pull off combos I'm not sure what you are talking about. I still think you would have benefited from playing the demo. Hell look at Max's combo videos.. the stuff he can pull off with the combat I still can't do because I haven't delved into Normal or Hard mode mapping buttons. I'm talking about choosing which buttons do what. Why does square have to be my attack button? Why can't I change it to X? Why does dodge have to be circle? Any AAA game that comes out these days should have control mapping. There's absolutely no reason FF7 Remake shouldn't have that feature. This is a game on the ps4, not the ps1. Not only does this not allow people like me to customize my experience (and seriously, why can't you navigate menus with the analogue stick? That makes no sense to me.) It makes the game inaccessible for handicapped individuals who need custom control schemes. Control mapping is something most companies have been doing for well over a decade. While the video you linked shows an impressive knowledge of the combat system when it comes to strategizing, switching, and timing, that's not what I'm referring to when I say combos. I'm talking about combos in the traditional sense of an action game. Square square triangle triangle, square. Things of that nature (I know this isn't an action game, my point is that it should choose to be one or the other and I don't care which). I'm not bitching that the game has expanded content. I'm bitching that so far, most of that expanded content is not good. Mind you, I'm just starting chapter 5. The expanded portions of the bombing mission were fine (dodging lasers was kind of lame, but whatever). I dig the fact that they are trying to give more characterization to Bigs, Wedge, and Jessie. I don't particularly like Jessie's characterization as 90% of her dialogue is being flirty with Cloud. Granted, it's not like I had some huge attachment to the original Jessie so I don't consider new Jessie as worse. I think they could've done a better job though; especially when you consider all of the girls in this game are super thirsty for Cloud. If it was just Jessie, that'd be one thing, but this game is basically turning all of the females into romance options. Is that what we're calling good female characterization now - when their main trait is how attracted they are to the main character and how dateable they are? Am I playing a dating sim or the most renowned JRPG of all time? Scratch that, I've played dating sims with better female characterization. The side quests were extremely lame. Rescuing cats? Killing 10 rats? Are we playing an MMO? Jessie's sidequest was decent, but the motivation for doing it was pretty weak. I am open to changes! Like I said, when I first saw what triggered Cloud to think about Sephiroth my initial thought was "Oh, hey, that actually makes sense". It wasn't until the scene went on for five minutes that I thought "yeah, this is excessive". I'm not afraid of change. I'm afraid of bad change and I'm afraid of change that makes it a fundamentally different story. Yes, there were many many reasons why people hated ff13 and I'm not saying this game is anywhere near FF13 level in sucking. I'm simply pointing out the facts of where the two games have overlap. They both have a staggering system. I personally did not like it in FF13 and do not like it here, but a lot of people actually thought the staggering system was a highlight of FF13. As for the linearity, FF13 was universally panned because of it. Look at the articles that came out the week before FF13's release when the map layouts got leaked. The internet had a collective meltdown, and FF13's reputation never recovered from that. And I'm not really "bitching" about the linearity? Pointing out that the game is linear like FF13 is not "bitching". Calling it a nitpick is not "bitching". Expanding upon my argument because you addressed it is not "bitching". That's just having a conversation. Did I say anywhere that it's a travesty the game is linear or that it ruins the game? I just said it's a little disappointing that SE hasn't learned much since FF13 and it's not unreasonable to expect more exploration in a game that promised to expand Midgar. I'm not the only one who has brought this point up. In fact, despite the game getting really good review scores, that's one of the common complaints shared among many of them, so it's not just me nor do I think it's an unfair criticism. The game is literally called FF7 Remake. I'll talk further on this point once we've both finished the game, but calling it false advertising is quite fair in my eyes. As for whether or not I buy the sequels, I'll make that decision once I finish the game. I've been saying for years that FF7 Remake would be SE's last chance in my eyes.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Apr 22, 2020 11:21:43 GMT -5
Sorry Bada but several paragraphs of just pure rage is bitching. Nothing wrong with bitching you are expressing your utter disappointment. I don't agree with half of what you are saying but that's your opinion. You expected something that was never advertised at any point at any time by anyone and then proceed to express your outrage that you aren't getting it. I can't help you. If you hate the game don't play it. It's not going to magically change the further you go.
Storywise Jessie has always been after Cloud but because the section was so short you didn't get much of an expansion outside of a few flirty lines. Now they have the chance to do so and they did. As for the other girls.. THEY WERE ALWAYS ROMANCE OPTIONS. That has not changed at all. Remember the cat fight at the sex dungeon in Corneos' mantion? Did you forget that? Tifa giving snippy lines at Aerith for invading her territory? The whole decision making for almost a full PS1 disk so you know who would show up for a date at the Gold Saucer? It's all there.. ALL of it. The only reason you feel this way is that it's no longer sprites on a screen and text. The girls are actually identical to their original portrayal. Remember that you can get Barret to show up instead of any of the girls in the original or even no one at all if you chose a certain way through several chapters worth of dialogue options.
Sidequests are optional. You think it's beneath you don't do it. It doesn't affect story only romance options.
7 remake is not 13 no matter how you spin it. It isn't Kingdom Hearts. It isn't FF15. Thank. God. It's its own thing with it's own flaws and its own mechanics, flow and storytelling. The original people are remaking the game the way they want it. Hate them if you want to but it's their damn story. If you hate it just stop. Otherwise it's just straight up bitching because you didn't make the game yourself. Criticize it for camera controls. That's fine. But that is still a decision they made because it's not a damn action game. You got 13 more chapters to go and if you can't make peace with it I suggest you stop now because you'll only get more angry. It's not going to magically change because you hate it. THAT is why I am saying you are bitching. Do I absolutely LOVE this game? No. It has its flaws but I'm accepting that THIS is the game they made and the model of which they will make more. Expecting them to change anything because someone who wanted an action game when they already diverted from a turn based classic is just .. wow. You have known this for 5 YEARS. You refused to play the demo. I can't help you Bada.
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Apr 22, 2020 17:23:28 GMT -5
Sorry Bada but several paragraphs of just pure rage is bitching. Nothing wrong with bitching you are expressing your utter disappointment. I don't agree with half of what you are saying but that's your opinion. You expected something that was never advertised at any point at any time by anyone and then proceed to express your outrage that you aren't getting it. I can't help you. If you hate the game don't play it. It's not going to magically change the further you go. Storywise Jessie has always been after Cloud but because the section was so short you didn't get much of an expansion outside of a few flirty lines. Now they have the chance to do so and they did. As for the other girls.. THEY WERE ALWAYS ROMANCE OPTIONS. That has not changed at all. Remember the cat fight at the sex dungeon in Corneos' mantion? Did you forget that? Tifa giving snippy lines at Aerith for invading her territory? The whole decision making for almost a full PS1 disk so you know who would show up for a date at the Gold Saucer? It's all there.. ALL of it. The only reason you feel this way is that it's no longer sprites on a screen and text. The girls are actually identical to their original portrayal. Remember that you can get Barret to show up instead of any of the girls in the original or even no one at all if you chose a certain way through several chapters worth of dialogue options. Sidequests are optional. You think it's beneath you don't do it. It doesn't affect story only romance options. 7 remake is not 13 no matter how you spin it. It isn't Kingdom Hearts. It isn't FF15. Thank. God. It's its own thing with it's own flaws and its own mechanics, flow and storytelling. The original people are remaking the game the way they want it. Hate them if you want to but it's their damn story. If you hate it just stop. Otherwise it's just straight up bitching because you didn't make the game yourself. Criticize it for camera controls. That's fine. But that is still a decision they made because it's not a damn action game. You got 13 more chapters to go and if you can't make peace with it I suggest you stop now because you'll only get more angry. It's not going to magically change because you hate it. THAT is why I am saying you are bitching. Do I absolutely LOVE this game? No. It has its flaws but I'm accepting that THIS is the game they made and the model of which they will make more. Expecting them to change anything because someone who wanted an action game when they already diverted from a turn based classic is just .. wow. You have known this for 5 YEARS. You refused to play the demo. I can't help you Bada. I'm not sure why you're getting so defensive here. I even prefaced everything by saying they were nitpicks. You are interpreting my tone as bitching. I am communicating my opinion on the game. There's nothing bitching about that. If I was going around saying "THIS GAME SUCKS. HOW COULD THEY MAKE THESE DECISIONS?!" That's bitching. Outlining completely fair criticism is not bitching. Pointing out that an AAA game in the year 2020 should have the option to customize controls is not bitching. That's not a "decision", that's an absent feature. Do I have to be gushing about the game for me to not be classified as "bitching"? You define my posts as "pure rage" and I have no idea where that's coming from. Are there any sentences that make it seem like I am raging? You've completely misinterpreted me. I bought the game to enjoy it, but that doesn't mean I can't take part in the conversation of pointing out flaws. This game, and no game, is above criticism. Some of my favorite games of all time are dumpster fires held together by duct tape. One of my favorite franchises is Earth Defense Force and those games barely function half of the time. I'm not hard to please when it comes to games. It feels like you can't handle a dissenting opinion. If you're enjoying the game, that's awesome. Really glad you can find enjoyment for a game you were looking forward to especially with the current state of the world. I wish I was right there with you (emotionally, not physically. Social distancing and what not)! I like the discussion though, and that includes both the good and the bad. Even Max, who you seem to hold in high regard, has pointed out many of the same flaws that I have. It's fair to call the game linear (which isn't even a judgement call on whether or not that's good or bad, just a fact). Perhaps it's not as noticeable in this game because other elements of FF7R are strong enough to distract from it. In FF13, you had bad characters, bad story, bad gameplay, and bad map design combined which served to exacerbate all of the problems. But it's not unfair to point out similarities between this game and ff13. Motomu Toriyama had a huge part of designing the core gameplay mechanics of FF7R and it shows. Whether someone likes those decisions or not is irrelevant to the fact that those similarities exist. In fact, this game was mostly made by the FF13 team - business division 1. And for the last time, I don't want an action game. I don't want a turn based game. I'd be fine with either of those options. I'm not sure why you keep bringing up the fact that I didn't play the demo. I am not having buyer's remorse. I bought the game knowing there's a solid chance I could dislike it and I was fine with that. If the game turned off 30 minutes in it wouldn't matter because I already made peace with my decision to purchase it. But also thank god I didn't play the demo because the demo covered my favorite part of the game so far. That would've hurt my enjoyment of the final product. "You expected something that was never advertised at any point at any time by anyone." Let's discuss this point more in detail when we both finish, but I don't really agree with this statement. They titled the game "remake" and there were plenty of conflicting statements leading up to release. They were not entirely forward with what this game would be. Some people think that's a good thing as they were able to play the game and be surprised by the subversions. However, it's perfectly fair to feel burnt by that decision. But lastly, you are totally off base on what my "expectations" were. The moment I saw Nomura was directing this, my expectations were firmly set. From day 1 I did not expect a faithful remake. I think you are confusing hope for expectations. I would have liked a faithful remake, but I never once thought that's the route they'd go down.
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Apr 22, 2020 22:14:28 GMT -5
If it makes you feel better, I will list the things I enjoy. - Biggs and Wedge are obvious massive improvements over the original game. - Guard scorpion made me mad but it was a really fun and rewarding fight. The way they took what is essentially the tutorial boss and made him into this massive threat is exactly what I wanted out of the remake. - While I dislike some of the new versions of the songs, the way they seamlessly change based on what you're doing is well done. I always enjoy it when games do that. - Extra lore on where some of these enemies come from is appreciated. - This game does retain a lot of the goofy aspects of the original ff7. They certainly avoided just making this into advent children 2.0 (well, for the most part). They retain a lot of the over the top monster designs of the original. - The game is beautiful (aside from the n64 looking door textures). Kind of makes me wish they would've just held off an released it on the PS5 so the game wouldn't have to make any compromises. They pushed the ps4 to its absolute limit. - Like I mentioned before, the banter among the citizens of the world and the party members makes the world feel alive. - Contrary to a lot of people, I actually like what I've seen of Roche so far. - Darts were fun. Happy now? Additional nitpick I didn't list before: - Let me go down the pinball elevator! I can't believe they kept that in but don't let you go down. (Unless it happens later)
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Apr 24, 2020 10:01:49 GMT -5
Sorry I got a Nintendo Switch with Animal Crossing and life disappeared for 2 days.. straight.. ehem I'm happy you took time to say you actually liked the game. My fundamental thought on the ANY game is that if you don't enjoy the core mechanics you stop playing the game. You spent now paragraphs complaining about the combat. Combat is a core mechanic of the game (which is why I refused to even buy Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy 15). I hated the combat so despite any benefit I would have liked from the story I can always go to YouTube and look at it from there withing financially supporting it. I talked about the demo because unlike other demos this is an accurate presentation of everything there is to this game. If you played the demo you would have complained about the combat and made the decision if you wanted to buy the game based on the combat. Complaining about it after it makes no sense given it's been 5 years since they announced how it was going to be, showed a year's or more worth of actual gameplay and let you play the first chapter for free as a way to make an informed decision. So ignoring literally everything tied to that then going on and on about how YOU thought the combat should have been after it's already done and presented to you in painstaking detail just made your entire argument petty. That's not criticism. That's bitching. Nothing you say will change it. It's about either accepting it or not accepting it. Complaining about the scorpion fight (earlier post) when everyone already made their decision a month before you purchased the game is bitching. You are a month late on "criticism" of the core mechanic and functionality of the game. You brought up Kingdom Hearts, FF13 and even Dynasty Warriors. It's neither of those nor should that be a topic of conversation when there was a demo already telling you it wasn't going to be. See the problem? That's not criticism. Criticism is not liking what was not in the demo. Changes to story. Pacing of chapters. Camera problems in small corridors (something that was not in the demo). Texture pops of backgrounds when you are walking around. Even endgame stuff (which I'm not there yet but seems significant). THAT is criticism. Your whole earlier posts all were telegraphed clearly from day 1 and actual gameplay with the ability to try before you buy with an accurate presentation of the product for over a month (and year if you went to conventions which I did not). Liking/not liking a game after you've played it is a review. They don't have to be positive either. But that should be content that is IN the game and not what someone's preconceived notions were before they picked it up. Masking it as "they weren't straight forward" is just wrong. They couldn't have been more clear. YOU chose to ignore it because it would mask your enjoyment of the game. It's not their failure.. it's yours. YOU chose to ignore what they gave you because you wanted to be surprised. THEN lie saying they lied to you. They didn't. They were clear. They were obvious. They were transparent. They want people to understand the direction they are going for this and future games. They took feedback for a full year. They even changed a few things along the way based on that feedback. To say they lied is just flat out wrong. So yes I get defensive on that. I've been thrown under the bus so many times for giving out TOO much information so the idea that others have and you chose to ignore it then accuse them of doing what YOU did is just.. wrong. I'd say something stronger but I'm sure you get my drift. As for me liking/not liking it. For the 7 chapters I've seen I still am not happy with the combat but I dumbed it down so I can judge the story. The story I like. It's a new twist with a mix and spirit of the old. Like I mentioned before, It's their story. They can do wtf they want with it. The original is still there. Still available to purchase in literally every form of medium their is. I can judge the remake for what it is once the whole thing is out. Yes they are smashing all of the universes together in this version from Crisis Core to Advent Children. If anything I'm happy they are doing it this way rather than making us play those god-awful games (Crisis core and omg Dirge of Cerberus sucked and the movie while nostalgic was not that great).
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Apr 24, 2020 10:40:22 GMT -5
Sorry I got a Nintendo Switch with Animal Crossing and life disappeared for 2 days.. straight.. ehem I'm happy you took time to say you actually liked the game. My fundamental thought on the ANY game is that if you don't enjoy the core mechanics you stop playing the game. You spent now paragraphs complaining about the combat. Combat is a core mechanic of the game (which is why I refused to even buy Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy 15). I hated the combat so despite any benefit I would have liked from the story I can always go to YouTube and look at it from there withing financially supporting it. I talked about the demo because unlike other demos this is an accurate presentation of everything there is to this game. If you played the demo you would have complained about the combat and made the decision if you wanted to buy the game based on the combat. Complaining about it after it makes no sense given it's been 5 years since they announced how it was going to be, showed a year's or more worth of actual gameplay and let you play the first chapter for free as a way to make an informed decision. So ignoring literally everything tied to that then going on and on about how YOU thought the combat should have been after it's already done and presented to you in painstaking detail just made your entire argument petty. That's not criticism. That's bitching. Nothing you say will change it. It's about either accepting it or not accepting it. Complaining about the scorpion fight (earlier post) when everyone already made their decision a month before you purchased the game is bitching. You are a month late on "criticism" of the core mechanic and functionality of the game. You brought up Kingdom Hearts, FF13 and even Dynasty Warriors. It's neither of those nor should that be a topic of conversation when there was a demo already telling you it wasn't going to be. See the problem? That's not criticism. Criticism is not liking what was not in the demo. Changes to story. Pacing of chapters. Camera problems in small corridors (something that was not in the demo). Texture pops of backgrounds when you are walking around. Even endgame stuff (which I'm not there yet but seems significant). THAT is criticism. Your whole earlier posts all were telegraphed clearly from day 1 and actual gameplay with the ability to try before you buy with an accurate presentation of the product for over a month (and year if you went to conventions which I did not). Liking/not liking a game after you've played it is a review. They don't have to be positive either. But that should be content that is IN the game and not what someone's preconceived notions were before they picked it up. Masking it as "they weren't straight forward" is just wrong. They couldn't have been more clear. YOU chose to ignore it because it would mask your enjoyment of the game. It's not their failure.. it's yours. YOU chose to ignore what they gave you because you wanted to be surprised. THEN lie saying they lied to you. They didn't. They were clear. They were obvious. They were transparent. They want people to understand the direction they are going for this and future games. They took feedback for a full year. They even changed a few things along the way based on that feedback. To say they lied is just flat out wrong. So yes I get defensive on that. I've been thrown under the bus so many times for giving out TOO much information so the idea that others have and you chose to ignore it then accuse them of doing what YOU did is just.. wrong. I'd say something stronger but I'm sure you get my drift. As for me liking/not liking it. For the 7 chapters I've seen I still am not happy with the combat but I dumbed it down so I can judge the story. The story I like. It's a new twist with a mix and spirit of the old. Like I mentioned before, It's their story. They can do wtf they want with it. The original is still there. Still available to purchase in literally every form of medium their is. I can judge the remake for what it is once the whole thing is out. Yes they are smashing all of the universes together in this version from Crisis Core to Advent Children. If anything I'm happy they are doing it this way rather than making us play those god-awful games (Crisis core and omg Dirge of Cerberus sucked and the movie while nostalgic was not that great). They were not forthcoming with what this game/series of games really is. If they were, people wouldn't be so shocked by how the game ends. Again, revisit this point once you've finished so we can talk in detail. I don't know what details you know, and I'm not gonna spoil anything. The average consumer is also not like you or me. They are not reading every interview Nomura and Kitase and co put out. Slapping the word "remake" on the box when the game is not a remake is gross. This comment and my original comment about this were not about the the combat. SE were very clear on that. I have no issues with how that was advertised. I am talking about the story. Most of my complaints were not things that could be gleamed from the demo alone. Yes, the demo would've given me a good sense of the combat. I don't know what point you're trying to make. Do you think if I played the demo that I wouldn't have purchased the game? My point in bringing up other franchises was that I regularly play games with bad combat. I've even complimented parts of the battle system and said it's uniqueness makes it fun and interesting. That's so far down my list of complaints. The game could have no combat and I'd probably be okay with that. You're complaining about the combat just as much as I am. You have a fundamental problem with it being more action oriented. I have no issues with that direction what so ever. SE has been trying for years to successfully make this hybrid system and they fail time and time again. They tried in FF13, they tried in KH, they tried in FF15, and they tried again here. I think this is their best attempt at it yet, but it's not quite there. That's why I think they should choose to either make it an action game or a turn based game. I don't know why we're spending so much energy on this point when we agree that the combat has problems. I'm not here for the combat though. I wasn't even there for the combat in the original. I'm here for the story and characters. I don't really care if the combat sucks, but that doesn't mean it's free from criticism. The demo would not have prepared me for the lame sidequests, the changes to the story, the pacing of the game, the frequent walk and talk section, the bad textures in the slums, etc. But let's be real, I would've bought the game regardless. Even if all of those things were in the demo, it still doesn't make it immune to criticism. You can't say "They let you try their bad game out for free and you bought it anyway, so you're not allowed to criticize it!" These are all perfectly valid points to bring up in a conversation. How much they affects one's enjoyment is up to them. Youtube videos are free to watch. Am I not allowed to criticize them because they're free? I don't really understand that line of thinking. I think you are seeing only what you want to see when it comes to my posts. You're coming at them with preconceived notions of what you think - like I have some bone to pick with this game. I wanted to like this game just as much as everyone else. There's enough bad stuff going on in the world and I'd love a good game to take my mind off of it. Again, I do not have buyer's remorse. I am not regretting my purchase. Anytime I spend money on anything I prepare myself for the worst. The game could've started, given me the middle finger, and destroyed the disc and I would've thought "well, that's unfortunate". I always keep my expectations in check. Me pointing out that it has similarities to FF13 when the majority of the FF13 team worked on this game is completely fair. That's an objective truth. And I'm not just talking about the gameplay. It's the map design and so much more. "Changes to story. Pacing of chapters. Texture pops of backgrounds when you are walking around." These are all complaints I have made in previous posts, so I don't really get your point there. You're saying those are fair criticisms, and those are exact criticisms that I made. So my criticisms are fair now? I also want to re-emphasize that this entire conversation started after I labeled these at NITPICKS I don't think you wanna hear about the stuff I REALLY dislike. As a sidenote, just because you might stop playing a game because you dislike the core mechanics doesn't mean I do or have to. I played through the entirety of KH3 and hated virtually every second of it. There are plenty of reasons to finish a bad game: to be part of the conversation, to form valid and complete opinions about the product, to get your money's worth, to be able to have conversations with an informed opinion, etc... Imagine if I dropped the game 3 hours in and had complaints. People would say "yeah but, you didn't finish it so your opinion is meaningless". I wouldn't fault you if you stopped playing a game you don't like. That's perfectly reasonable. But I also don't think you can fault me for playing a game I paid for.
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Apr 27, 2020 12:48:02 GMT -5
Nitpick = bitching and that's all there is to it. They haven't lied and you are only hearing what you want. Accusing people of deception is beyond the pale and I have zero tolerance for it. I'm done.
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Apr 27, 2020 13:05:31 GMT -5
Nitpick = bitching and that's all there is to it. They haven't lied and you are only hearing what you want. Accusing people of deception is beyond the pale and I have zero tolerance for it. I'm done. Finish the game and let me know if you still believe that because that's what my argument is based on, and I'm far from the only person saying it. I can't make an argument without spoiling the game, so we're coming at this from two different levels of knowledge of the content. I am not talking about chapters 1, or 2, or 3, or 4, etc... I am literally talking about how the game ends. I haven't touched those portions of the game to bolster my argument out of respect for your playthrough. (And that's not even getting to the fact that they said advent children and the rest was non-canon, but obviously they are. That's a lie no matter how you slice it.) www.finalfantasyunion.com/news/3357/tetsuya-nomura-reveals-compilation-of-ffvii-is-not-canon-to-ffvii-remake/And self labeling something as nitpicking isn't bitching. It's an acknowledgement that certain complaints are minor and self focused - ergo pretty much the opposite of bitching. Though you're right, the control mapping issue is not a nitpick. That's a major complaint. Would you like to explain to my best friend why he's not allowed to play FF7 because he has cerebral palsy and SE decided they wouldn't let him map the controls like every other AAA game does?
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Apr 28, 2020 9:39:30 GMT -5
Nitpick = bitching and that's all there is to it. They haven't lied and you are only hearing what you want. Accusing people of deception is beyond the pale and I have zero tolerance for it. I'm done. Finish the game and let me know if you still believe that because that's what my argument is based on, and I'm far from the only person saying it. I can't make an argument without spoiling the game, so we're coming at this from two different levels of knowledge of the content. I am not talking about chapters 1, or 2, or 3, or 4, etc... I am literally talking about how the game ends. I haven't touched those portions of the game to bolster my argument out of respect for your playthrough. (And that's not even getting to the fact that they said advent children and the rest was non-canon, but obviously they are. That's a lie no matter how you slice it.) www.finalfantasyunion.com/news/3357/tetsuya-nomura-reveals-compilation-of-ffvii-is-not-canon-to-ffvii-remake/And self labeling something as nitpicking isn't bitching. It's an acknowledgement that certain complaints are minor and self focused - ergo pretty much the opposite of bitching. Though you're right, the control mapping issue is not a nitpick. That's a major complaint. Would you like to explain to my best friend why he's not allowed to play FF7 because he has cerebral palsy and SE decided they wouldn't let him map the controls like every other AAA game does? Advent Children is Canon. Period. They call it the movie sequel. All other games are periphery and as such they don't pay attention too much to them. Nomura never EVER talks in absolutes. Considering also that is is not the main writer it doesn't matter. Advent Children is canon (and he doesn't even address it here in this question) and they even took out a new trademark for it within the last year hinting either the movie being incorporated into the game or it being a game or being the final game of FF7R. Just seeing the trailer with Sephiroth with the wing so early I'm positive Advent Children already is in it. I expected it to be put in the game (it is already) and they explicitly said they are reworking the story to include elements of the other works but not do it exactly. They said it was going to be a retelling of the original so it was already not going to be exactly as the original game. They even recast literally everyone to make sure the split was made early and people didn't confuse the 2 canons. Hell Geostygma is already in the game.. so I'm sure the ending is distinctly Advent Children. It's supposed to keep the veterans guessing because they already announced it was going to be retold and a "new" Final Fantasy for everyone not just the vets or the new people playing it for the first time. They have ALWAYS been clear this is its own game and not a glam up of the original. The story was to be changed. This was one of the major hints. Going back even further. The question Nomura was asked was about doing HD remasters of Dirge and Crisis Core. The answer was no. The timeline and story contradicts and hell a full character was included so they could add GACKT. That's luckily not going to be in the FF7R. They did mention in numerous interviews for the past YEAR that they are not doing a carbon copy and will do a new story but keep the elements that fans remember from the original. Zack is about the only thing surviving from Crisis Core but that's fine because he was the great reveal in FF7 original anyway. When I saw the trailer with that weird lifestream haze thing and him alive and well I'm sure that's the ending with people freaking out. I'm fine with it. I knew this was a new game so I'm not going nuts. I had 5 years warning.
|
|
|
Post by Badalight on Apr 28, 2020 11:06:24 GMT -5
I appreciate the well thought out post. Again, I think this is something we can more clearly talk about once you've finished. My beef is not about the game being different. As you outlined, they were clear about that. This isn't about me either. I've thought from day 1 this game would turn into Kingdom Hearts, so none of this comes as a surprise to me. In some ways, it's actually closer to what I wanted than what I originally thought it would be. The characters are mostly on point and certainly the closest they've been in any media made after the original game. Cloud and Aerith specifically have never even approximated their original characterization in most media since. But I think it's fair to say from the public response that most people were not expecting what we got in the final product, mostly in regards to the ending. "Nomura never EVER talks in absolutes" And that's somewhat of a problem. Of course, it's easy to see the trail of breadcrumbs after the fact. All of the interviews make sense after playing the game, but again, most people did not see this ending coming. One could argue that if Nomura was more straightforward that it would've ruined the surprise. I totally understand that argument; though, I personally prefer when companies are more upfront about their products. That's who Nomura is though. Surprising players gives him life, and that has obviously worked out very well for him. I'm jut personally tired being strung along. I'm not sure that necessarily matches up with what you said just a few weeks ago. Noooooo. no way he's alive. The most I see is that they tease him for the next set of games. The thing that is different is that he was unhurt there (in every iteration he was shot - original game was a couple quick bursts.. in Crisis Core was this dramatic a** send off in a hail of bullets in a rainstorm. If anything what I see is that Cloud is reminiscing and thinks HE was the one standing there (he is after all wearing Zacks clothes and thinks he was Zack. The thing also is that there's this haze/lifestream floating around in the scene so it's making me think it's a dream sequence. You'll probably get your gift of Jenova/Sephiroth utterly messing with his mind. I see that more than anything. Zack is the big a** reveal at the end of the game after Mideal. There's no way they will spoil that. The rest of the story even the Nibelheim stuff is backstory but the identity of Cloud is HUGE. I think they did that to absolutely screw with the Veterans of the games because they will tune in to the next games to see OMG ZACK AAAHHHH. It's a tease and a big one because most of the reaction videos I saw EVERYONE went berserk when they saw that.
Also.. If Aerith lives there will be riots.. No way they are going to screw that up. If anything they will milk her for this game and the next (because she's totally dead next game.. City of the Ancients is pretty early - disk 1) and make her death DEVASTATING. Hell.. Look what they are doing with AVALANCHE. Most people didn't care in the original or even forgot about Jessie, Biggs and Wedge.. now.. not so much. New people are going to be gutted they die. They won't mess with the story's main points. It's the peripheral they will absolutely change and add to. Main points of Cloud/Sephiroth/Aerith/Zack will stay as they are but tweaked to add more context. I'll eat a shoe if anything changes fundamentally. No point of hunting for Black Materia if White Materia holder is alive.. You are right.. TOTALLY different story if that happens. They assured they won't change the fundamentals but will tweak the story around it. I'm looking forward to it!
|
|
arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,616
Staff Member
|
Post by arsenette on Apr 29, 2020 8:46:30 GMT -5
Yeah Square Enix (and SquareSoft before them) and frankly a lot of Japanese companies function this way. Maybe at my old age I'm used to it? I knew it wasn't going to be Kingdom Hearts because of how heavily involved Kitase was with the original writing team. Nomura just did character design in the original and while he is directing it he is not in full control of the story because of the franchise's storied history and the fact that the story is already complete. Kitase was clear in saying "yes it's the old game but we have a few surprises we wished we did" and I was fine with it. Sure I expected Nomura to have a say but not Kingdom Hearts level and that's good. But yeah I got really defensive when you said they lied when they didn't. I'm happy you see what I was talking about. Given I've been in Animal Crossing rabbit hole I haven't picked up from where I left off yet (Don is almost done the game by now and said "OMG THEY CHANGED THINGS BUT I THINK YOU'LL LIKE IT" - and he knows me VERY well so I take that statement as fact) I haven't seen what happens yet. Rereading what I said that I'll eat a shoe then I should prep it soon? If they changed it then it's a wild ride and I look forward to what they do. If they said they haven't and people are freaking out then they created a fuzzy plot point that is meant to be a cliffhanger for the next game keeping the fanbase guessing like it's an episode of LOST or something vague like that. One thing is for sure is that when they go down these rabbit holes it's rarely what people think. If people are STILL playing New Game+ and talking about the ending then they NAILED the game because now they are frothing at the mouth to figure out WTF is going on. I already said that in Chapter 2 when Sephiroth was cruising around town like nothing was happening before Jenova was out of the tank. THEN overtaking Marco's body to physically attack Cloud at the end of that chapter. I was thinking "YEP.. THEY ARE GOING WHERE NO MAN HAS GONE BEFORE!". So what you are saying is that by the time I get there.. I should have a shoe prepped, basted and waiting to be eaten? DAMN... if they totally went to left field on this I'm actually excited to see.. Don is chomping at the bit to talk to me about where he is (I think Chapter 15? I lost track). And the HOLY CRAP is in Chapter 18. If people that died are alive (or eluded to be and people think they may or may not be or alternate timelines or something similar - recent FFXIV MMO LOVES going into the Void to pull from every franchise citing "it's the void where time doesn't exist") then I question where this is going. Unless it's by design. I did ask him one spoiler that took his breath away and he told me one very much alive person that shouldn't be. He's my favorite character so I'm curious what will happen from this point on if HE is alive.. Once I get better healthwise I'll go back to playing. I still have a couple chapters to edit and put on YouTube but I haven't played in a couple weeks. NOW I'm looking forward to it. If everyone is riled up and conspiracy theories are going nuts then I'm really curious. Yes I've seen Max's tweets (but haven't listened to the topic) and have seen YouTube video thumbnails all discussing "what did the ending really mean" which means it is WTF and vague to the point people are coming up with conspiracy theories and trying to connect the dots. TBH I'm happy with something like that. It's a new game then and not a rehash of what it was before. If anything it may be something meant to throw off the vets who thought this was the original story. Considering that in the Midgar portion of the story half of the story wasn't revealed until after they left Midgar and now we are seeing what is happening DURING it. Color me intrigued.
|
|