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Post by jfeathe on Jan 15, 2011 17:43:28 GMT -5
So here we go:
Kunoichi 8 got a 9.5 rating.
Sasuke 26 got a 9.0 rating.
Sasuke 25 got a 7.5 rating.
What was it about each of these shows that gave it the rating that it did? Kunoichi 8 was pretty bad to watch yet it beat the 2 most recent Sasukes. Even though we're purists here on this forum, I don't the general Japanese viewer liked the new format as much as the normal one, either. So what was it that was more appealing?
What I remember was that there was more advertising for K8 than either S25 or 26. I also remember the celebrity base being higher as well.
However, I believe the one thing that gave it the extra edge over 25 and 26 was the fact that pretty big names and "regular everyday people" made it far into the course. If you think about it, you had the whole range of competitors from housewives (Asami Nagano) to All Stars/celebrity althletes (Rie Komiya) make it to stage 2.
From what I remember, K8's Stage 3 and 4 took only the last half hour or so of the broadcast. This means nearly the entire broadcast was filled with big names and plucky, ordinary competitors.
If a show that horrible can beat the most recent Sasukes, it's pretty evident to me that the actual competitors are the most important aspect to the regular japanese viewer. I'll repeat, they completely butchered, no, massacred the format and still came out ahead. If K8 was filled with the same competitor make-up as Sasuke 25, it would be lucky to get a 5.0 in the ratings.
Sasuke, after coming off a HUGE victory by Urushihara, couldn't beat that. And I think it all comes down to the competitors.
As much as it pains me to say it, the All Star saga is getting old for viewers and people like Urushihara, Kanno, Okuyama, and Lee simply aren't as appealing as Kane Kosugi, EXILE, and all the comedians.
I feel stupid bring this up for the millionth time, but they simply need big names for nearly the entire duration of the broadcast. I'm going extreme now, but if they reverted back to Sasuke 3 or 4's first stage, we would get a second stage like Kunoichi 8's (which was by miles the best part of the broadcast) with a big variety of competitors. The housewives and celebrities failed the second stage while great ones made it through.
They can leave every stage after that alone and they should. But I really believe the key to better ratings is the first stage.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 18:07:01 GMT -5
The idea of making the first stage easier has been here for a while now. I mean, people said that in 24 (I know I did) and I thought we were answered in 25, but in reality we weren't.
I'm tired of going "No way that dude will beat the first stage."
I want to go back to "I have no idea if that man will be beat the first stage."
That Exile guy could've been a much more exciting run had it been in Sasuke 8 or something, but WE ALL KNEW he wasn't going to beat the first stage in 26.
Stage 1 needs to get plenty easier, I'd say Sasuke 5-13 easy, not 1-4 easy. That's too easy imo.
Stage 2 needs to get even harder, and Stage 1 obstacles should migrate over to this stage.
Stage 3 should stay the same.
Stage 4 should be nearly impossible.
THIS is how Sasuke needs to be if it wants to survive.
Also, Stage 1 needs to be shorter. I'll say it again, it's still boring as hell to watch a 130 second run. I want 80 second runs again.
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Post by bigblind168 on Jan 15, 2011 18:17:56 GMT -5
I feel stupid bring this up for the millionth time, but they simply need big names for nearly the entire duration of the broadcast. I'm going extreme now, but if they reverted back to Sasuke 3 or 4's first stage, we would get a second stage like Kunoichi 8's (which was by miles the best part of the broadcast) with a big variety of competitors. The housewives and celebrities failed the second stage while great ones made it through. They can leave every stage after that alone and they should. But I really believe the key to better ratings is the first stage. I agree with most of what you said. Stage 1, as much as i ADORE sasuke's stage 1, needs to be made easier. I've thought about the idea of a "Ninja Killer" first stage, for lack of a better term. you have the big KO's with a lenient limit. Stage 1 would look like: Steps Escargot JS Circle slider (maybe) Warped Wall Rope Ladder combo maybe... 90 seconds? if that? Maybe, maybe not. It's still hard, but it would get sasuke 23 clears. Also, Sasuke 22 was the highest the ratings have been since they dipped below 15%. What did it have? Comedians spread out. A not-as drawn out broadcast. Big Names spread out, STQers spread out. It's the best format they've had, for aslong as i can remember! I miss seeing clears in the 20s and 30s. Now, that #49 clear as an odd staple was nice, but im sure im not alone, Seeing Yamada Koji clearing stage 1 as #1 was amazing! I love seeing a guy who you think won't do *THAT* well, maybe end of stage 1 well, go onto stage 2. And once you get passed stage one well... Any given sunday... So, in conclusion. I agree, but i dont think we need to go as far as Sasuke 3 or 4. Maybe a "Ninja Killer" of say 25 or 26. Just the big names. The casual fans wont remember the dance bridge, but they do remember the rolling log. They remember the jump hang, and ofcourse the... JUMPINGUUU SPIDAHH!!!!!!! |
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Post by Badalight on Jan 15, 2011 19:18:08 GMT -5
I've always wanted an easier first stage since 19, but whatever. I was very happy with Sasuke 25 's first stage (unlike most people) and wish they would've kept it.
I wonder if those same people who hated the sasuke 25 first stage are wanting it back now? I'd love to go back and check the hypocrisy of everyone.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 20:02:24 GMT -5
I've always wanted an easier first stage since 19, but whatever. I was very happy with Sasuke 25 's first stage (unlike most people) and wish they would've kept it. I wonder if those same people who hated the sasuke 25 first stage are wanting it back now? I'd love to go back and check the hypocrisy of everyone. The "hypocrisy" your talking about is a bit more complicated, people didn't like alot of aspects of Sasuke 25's first stage, and very few complained about it's difficulty. Infact, some called it too hard still (ala Circle Slider) I hated it for other reasons. |
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Post by yamfriend on Jan 15, 2011 21:17:44 GMT -5
Although I've argued countless times that Stage 1 should be made considerably easier, I don't think that the only reason why the ratings are so low lately. IMO, another major factor with the ratings is the length of the broadcasts lately. If some of us struggle to get though tournaments like 23/24/25 in one sitting, it'll certainly make casual Japanese viewers much less likely to watch such long tournaments when they're broadcasted. That was one thing I kind of liked about 26. It was still just over 2 and a half hours, but its time length wasn't out of the picture of watching it all at once. I also think having 23, 24, and 25 all within 6 months of each other was too much too soon for most people, which may have also affected its ratings. 26 did seem to address this issue as well though by waiting a reasonable amount of time. Now there's certainly other factors that are affecting ratings in general lately (well-known people competing and/or getting far, lack of interest, etc.), but 26 seemed to address some of these issues as well, all of which may have played somewhat as a factor in 26 doing ever-so-slightly better than 25 did. If 27 addresses the "Stage 1 is too difficult lately" factor by making it appropriately easier, I believe Sasuke's ratings could get consistently back into the double digits or maybe even teens if they're lucky. Point blank, I'm thinking that M9 and TBS might've been slacking off with Sasuke lately, but that they're planning on improving the show in general. So I'm more positive about Sasuke's future right now than compared to a few months ago.  |
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Post by YoDaUO on Jan 15, 2011 22:28:56 GMT -5
Things that could have made Kunoichi 8 higher rated than 25 and 26
- More first stage clears.
- Its been a year (I think?) since kunoichi 7.
- People like watching women more??
I agree with that the first stage should be a bit easier. I like when theres more than 15 people in the second stage, it makes it more interesting. Pretty much what JPjuice said about this. Even though I think the new first stage is OK, I think they should shorten it a bit. Have the time limit be less that 100 seconds. Then second stage will wipe out most of the lucky ones that were "not expected" to clear the first stage or cant clear shin sasuke's first stage. With an easier first stage we can see more newer people in later stages. Third stage should stay as it is now. Heres how I picture a successful, good tournament that will get good ratings -
Stage 1 - 18 clears
Stage 2 - 8 clears
Stage 3 - 1 clear
Stage 4 - 0
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Post by jfeathe on Jan 15, 2011 22:43:18 GMT -5
Things that could have made Kunoichi 8 higher rated than 25 and 26 - More first stage clears. - Its been a year (I think?) since kunoichi 7. - People like watching women more?? I agree with that the first stage should be a bit easier. I like when theres more than 15 people in the second stage, it makes it more interesting. Pretty much what JPjuice said about this. Even though I think the new first stage is OK, I think they should shorten it a bit. Have the time limit be less that 100 seconds. Then second stage will wipe out most of the lucky ones that were "not expected" to clear the first stage or cant clear shin sasuke's first stage. With an easier first stage we can see more newer people in later stages. Third stage should stay as it is now. Heres how I picture a successful, good tournament that will get good ratings - Stage 1 - 18 clears Stage 2 - 8 clears Stage 3 - 1 clear Stage 4 - 0 I like your clear numbers. I think I would be even a little more generous. For the early Sasukes, it seems on average 15-30 of the competitors cleared the first stage, 1/2 of those cleared the second, and 0,1, or 2 competitors cleared the third. Of course, there are the anomilies like Sasuke 4's first stage clear rate and Sasuke 3 and 24's final, but for the most part my numbers seem about right. If I had it my way, I'd like to see: Stage 1: 25 clears Stage 2: 8-12 clears Stage 3: 0 or 1 clears Stage 4: 0 clears |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 22:53:42 GMT -5
Stage 1: 25 clears
Stage 2: 3-7 clears
Stage 3: 0 or 1 clears
Stage 4: 0 clears
I agree with you Jfeathe, but I think Stage 2 should take out ALOT more. The amount in Stage 3 should be enough to where you get to know the competitors that make it that far. Having too much means viewers can't keep track of who's in it. Having a small amount makes it more "Team" like, and interviewing each consistently let's viewers get to know the competitors better.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2011 22:55:37 GMT -5
Although I've argued countless times that Stage 1 should be made considerably easier, I don't think that the only reason why the ratings are so low lately. IMO, another major factor with the ratings is the length of the broadcasts lately. If some of us struggle to get though tournaments like 23/24/25 in one sitting, it'll certainly make casual Japanese viewers much less likely to watch such long tournaments when they're broadcasted. That was one thing I kind of liked about 26. It was still just over 2 and a half hours, but its time length wasn't out of the picture of watching it all at once. I also think having 23, 24, and 25 all within 6 months of each other was too much too soon for most people, which may have also affected its ratings. 26 did seem to address this issue as well though by waiting a reasonable amount of time. Now there's certainly other factors that are affecting ratings in general lately (well-known people competing and/or getting far, lack of interest, etc.), but 26 seemed to address some of these issues as well, all of which may have played somewhat as a factor in 26 doing ever-so-slightly better than 25 did. If 27 addresses the "Stage 1 is too difficult lately" factor by making it appropriately easier, I believe Sasuke's ratings could get consistently back into the double digits or maybe even teens if they're lucky. Point blank, I'm thinking that M9 and TBS might've been slacking off with Sasuke lately, but that they're planning on improving the show in general. So I'm more positive about Sasuke's future right now than compared to a few months ago. I really don't see any cooralation. Alot of Sasuke's were long, and Sasuke 26 was pretty short, yet the ratings are still up and down. I honestly can't see how the amount of time relates. Although I do agree, Sasuke 24 was dreadful, but if you have the entertaining competitors, and all that good stuff, than it doesn't matter. Seriously, anyone else though Sasuke 26 was more repetitive than 24 despite it being plenty shorter? I got bored during 26. 24? Not as much. |
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Post by jfeathe on Jan 15, 2011 23:09:27 GMT -5
Although I've argued countless times that Stage 1 should be made considerably easier, I don't think that the only reason why the ratings are so low lately. IMO, another major factor with the ratings is the length of the broadcasts lately. If some of us struggle to get though tournaments like 23/24/25 in one sitting, it'll certainly make casual Japanese viewers much less likely to watch such long tournaments when they're broadcasted. That was one thing I kind of liked about 26. It was still just over 2 and a half hours, but its time length wasn't out of the picture of watching it all at once. I also think having 23, 24, and 25 all within 6 months of each other was too much too soon for most people, which may have also affected its ratings. 26 did seem to address this issue as well though by waiting a reasonable amount of time. Now there's certainly other factors that are affecting ratings in general lately (well-known people competing and/or getting far, lack of interest, etc.), but 26 seemed to address some of these issues as well, all of which may have played somewhat as a factor in 26 doing ever-so-slightly better than 25 did. If 27 addresses the "Stage 1 is too difficult lately" factor by making it appropriately easier, I believe Sasuke's ratings could get consistently back into the double digits or maybe even teens if they're lucky. Point blank, I'm thinking that M9 and TBS might've been slacking off with Sasuke lately, but that they're planning on improving the show in general. So I'm more positive about Sasuke's future right now than compared to a few months ago. I really don't see any cooralation. Alot of Sasuke's were long, and Sasuke 26 was pretty short, yet the ratings are still up and down. I honestly can't see how the amount of time relates. Although I do agree, Sasuke 24 was dreadful, but if you have the entertaining competitors, and all that good stuff, than it doesn't matter. Seriously, anyone else though Sasuke 26 was more repetitive than 24 despite it being plenty shorter? I got bored during 26. 24? Not as much. I wasn't bored during 24 up until the third stage. After that it became rediculous. The runs were drawn out and the replays lasted so long they went into portions of Yagyu Gaiden they'd never played before. The problem with 26 was that certain portions of the broadcast went way longer than they should have. Nagano's, Urushihara's, and Yamada's runs seemed to take up 30 minutes. |
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Post by RiderLeangle on Jan 16, 2011 0:52:46 GMT -5
I wasn't bored during 24 up until the third stage. After that it became rediculous. The runs were drawn out and the replays lasted so long they went into portions of Yagyu Gaiden they'd never played before. Uhhhm... it's stage 3... all the runs are drawn out... theres no time limit and a rest between obstacles... Also.. they didn't use any new parts of Yagyu-Gaiden.. You must be mistaking it for Raikiri or something.. |
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Post by arsenette on Jan 16, 2011 2:29:06 GMT -5
Actually.. the audience for Kunoichi is far different from Sasuke. Kunoichi failed BIG time when comparing it to other Kunoichi shows... mostly because a lot of the previous names weren't there and more importantly a lot did not like the format. Comparing to Sasuke isn't good either. It came right after Sasuke 23 in Japan and it had lower ratings at that time than even that.. using Sasuke 24 numbers is not exactly a good comparison on top of that.. totally different time of year too.. Sasuke 23 and Kunoichi 8 in Japanese TV was also just a couple weeks apart.
As for the rest I've written an entire blog about it. They need more starpower... not just one guy (meaning Naoto). I'm kinda afraid what the ratings would have been had it been that he wasn't there.. they didn't have anyone else worth mentioning that hasn't become Sasuke famous. So far a lot of people are getting bored with the format since it's pretty old by now and the only thing beating it in that category are Sportsman rips that have starpower out the wazzu. Even then they are doing decent numbers just around 15 and less.. But all of those survive because of starpower.
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Post by TCM on Jan 16, 2011 13:44:40 GMT -5
IDK why they don't ask more Sportsman guys to try out. Aside from the normal crew of people they ask that is.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 16, 2011 13:47:53 GMT -5
So far though the highest rating I believe is SASUKE 8 26% (est.) SASUKE 26 got a 9%. Thats higher than 25 right?
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Post by yamfriend on Jan 16, 2011 15:05:26 GMT -5
So far though the highest rating I believe is SASUKE 8 26% (est.) I'm pretty sure Sasuke 7 was slightly higher than Sasuke 8 (both were very close though and IIRC each was in the mid-20s). SASUKE 26 got a 9%. Thats higher than 25 right? Did you not read the first post in this thread? Really...  |
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Post by YoDaUO on Jan 16, 2011 15:08:56 GMT -5
Yeah Sasuke 7 was higher than 8. Sasuke 7 was 26%, and 8 was 25.8. They were top 2 rated tournaments. SASUKE 26 got a 9%. Thats higher than 25 right? Did you not read the first post in this thread? Really... LOL |
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Post by arsenette on Jan 16, 2011 15:46:28 GMT -5
And as usual everyone is gauging the ratings in a vacuum. You can't see things by straight numbers.. you have to analyze what they were up against (if anything major), what time of year, who was in the show and whatnot. That's how in the past even "lower" number ratings were still okay but not now. Sasuke is no longer winning timeslots and we won't ever be back to 25+.. That was Kane Kosugi era that will never be repeated. Unless there is another one like him.. that number will never be repeated... even so.. even other type shows aren't breaking the 20% mark.
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Post by jfeathe on Jan 16, 2011 19:22:03 GMT -5
What I want to know now is the actual number of viewers. Perhaps since Sasuke 26 was during the New Years specials, total viewership was up overall which makes the percentage not as big of a deal as it normally is.
Isn't a 10% rating with 50 million viewers better than a 25% rating with 10 million views?
TBS isn't stupid and wouldn't put Sasuke during such an important time if they knew it wouldn't work. I'm guessing they're pleased with the ratings if they went through twice with New Years.
But first, am I even right in assuming New Years is one of Japan's biggest tv day??
Finally, is it possible that the earlier Sasuke that got over 20% ratings went against crap shows and the actual viewership number was pretty low? I don't deny that popularity has something to do with the decline, but I think it's important to examine all possibilities.
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Post by arsenette on Jan 16, 2011 20:21:14 GMT -5
Japan's ratings are static. TBS viewership in general has not gone up while G4's base has since Comcast expanded their markets. Ratings in Japan just as they are in the USA are based on percentages of available viewers during that timeslot. So 9% of Japan was watching TBS at that time of day from all available shows including cable, etc. G4 doesn't go that route since their access grew (meaning available houses getting G4) but their percentage dropped like a brick. They still had their best ratings ever for anything on their channel. .. but anything is HUGE when compared to reruns of Cheaters... LOL. Japan's base hasn't changed much.. in fact their base is actually a little lower since their population is sadly decreasing.. so a 25 back in Sasuke whatever it was is still a 25% today when viewed in comparison. Same could be said with network television here in the USA. Cable is the only one that has weird numbers simply because of their market only going through certain areas of the country. TBS doesn't have the same problem when showing their main programming. Sasuke is considered prime time so it's not preempted by local stuff like it is during the day.
As for TBS not putting it in the best time slot.. hello.. it's not a huge ratings winner and hasn't been for a few years now. Why waste your prime slots on a dying show? Makes no sense.. They are still doing what they can given what's left of their timeslot. As for the New Years (1-3rd of January) that's evenly spread out so people see TV virtually the entire time they are home. Yes there is a lot of people watching but most of the people are channel surfing between literally hundreds of other shows specifically designed for the holidays. Sasuke actually HAD a good time slot on a Sunday night with almost no competition (given that Monday was also a holiday with everyone off from work and school) but it still couldn't garner double digit ratings. That's why it was considered a failure.
Is it possible to be 20%? Honestly I don't think so but I do believe it can be mid to high teens if they had the right people on it AND they marketed better. Remember that other shows did manage to get double digits because of the people in it.. and not necessarily what the show was about. Heck.. Some shows were pure rips of Sportsman and they got almost 20% simply because they had big names doing the competition. It's all about who's in the show to begin with. The lure of early Sasuke was celebs doing well WITH Joe Schmo from the Stix.. now.. it's just Joe Schmo from the Stix mixed with has been people that show up on Hollywood Squares to get their career back..
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