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Post by lostinube on Oct 29, 2010 2:22:45 GMT -5
It's all nice and good to propose changes and whatnot to the show and it's approach but one thing people need to realize: The TV landscape has changed since the headiest days of SASUKE. There is not much of a market for physical challenge shows in Japan, mostly because Higuchi and M9 have run the concept into the ground. After Kinniku Banzuke and its successors died TBS was satisfied with just having SASUKE/KUNOICHI/Sportsman. Fuji gave it a go with VIKING and it was criticized for being a TBS rip-off. Asahi tried with Taiiku no Jikan and it was also seen as just Kinniku Banzuke redux. It barely lasted a year. Other companies have tried. DOORS seemed to be the wave of the future but it has petered out too (helped along by not being made this year). The latest attempt, G-Wars, has had sub-KUNOICHI ratings so far (a 9 for the two hour special and a 6 for last week's show). If G-Wars completely fails (and I don't see it lasting more than a year) then what TV station is going to want to do such type of shows? And these are both shows that are celebrity driven. Promotion and putting out TV programs cost money and TBS has shown for many years that SASUKE isn't really worth the time and money to them. This is not a recent thing. In a way, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy: They don't put money into this because it doesn't get ratings because they don't put money into this. I'm glad we're getting 26 but just like with 24, I don't see it as having any more significance to TBS than being a nice little time filler during the New Years season where ratings aren't as important. My take on SASUKE is still this: sasukemaniac.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=general&thread=514&post=10727Just change the number 25 to 26. But to that I want to add: They should take time off. Half a year. A year. Whatever. Get the viewing public used to the idea of there not being that type of show around. Then come back with a whole new concept. |
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lars072
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Post by lars072 on Oct 29, 2010 3:53:34 GMT -5
It's all nice and good to propose changes and whatnot to the show and it's approach but one thing people need to realize: The TV landscape has changed since the headiest days of SASUKE. There is not much of a market for physical challenge shows in Japan, mostly because Higuchi and M9 have run the concept into the ground. After Kinniku Banzuke and its successors died TBS was satisfied with just having SASUKE/KUNOICHI/Sportsman. Fuji gave it a go with VIKING and it was criticized for being a TBS rip-off. Asahi tried with Taiiku no Jikan and it was also seen as just Kinniku Banzuke redux. It barely lasted a year. Other companies have tried. DOORS seemed to be the wave of the future but it has petered out too (helped along by not being made this year). The latest attempt, G-Wars, has had sub-KUNOICHI ratings so far (a 9 for the two hour special and a 6 for last week's show). If G-Wars completely fails (and I don't see it lasting more than a year) then what TV station is going to want to do such type of shows? And these are both shows that are celebrity driven. Promotion and putting out TV programs cost money and TBS has shown for many years that SASUKE isn't really worth the time and money to them. This is not a recent thing. In a way, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy: They don't put money into this because it doesn't get ratings because they don't put money into this. I'm glad we're getting 26 but just like with 24, I don't see it as having any more significance to TBS than being a nice little time filler during the New Years season where ratings aren't as important. My take on SASUKE is still this: sasukemaniac.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=gotopost&board=general&thread=514&post=10727Just change the number 25 to 26. But to that I want to add: They should take time off. Half a year. A year. Whatever. Get the viewing public used to the idea of there not being that type of show around. Then come back with a whole new concept. OK ube.you make several good points. I have a few comments based on your info and suggestions you made earlier. 1. I understand that the TV landscape and market has changed. I'm sure that Japanese have also tired of physical challenge shows because of oversaturation. BUT...if this is true, why do TBS continue to put money into SASUKE (clearly not enough but they still spend $$)? Why are they continuing the SASUKE series even though ratings have been falling for years now? If they are not getting good ratings and are indifferent to this concept, why keep it around? Why not put the money into a different project instead of something that clearly has lost its appeal? I put the blame squarely on TBS here- they could have done so many things to improve ratings and shake things up without totally changing SASUKE's image. They have chosen to let M9 continue to produce the series and even though its clearly not producing the desired results, we have SASUKE 26. I just don't get this "half-a** approach" they seem to take with SASUKE- either go all out or get out. It's that simple! This whole idea of SASUKE 26 being a 'time filler' is complete rubbish. I would think that New Year's Day (or around then) would be a great time to show SASUKE and garner higher ratings and exposure. IF it was a time filler, then why have it during a holiday and not on some random weekday? I think they have looked at SASUKE 25 and realized that the ratings were worse because they screwed up. TBS's ratings for SASUKE 24 were the highest for many years if I'm not mistaken and that's why they have chosen to go this route again. Whether it works out or not remains to be seen. 2. I like your ideas about a final SASUKE - the extra prize $$, having the best competitors over the years etc. I would rather see an amazing finale to SASUKE instead of it getting cancelled and ending badly. Just like any long-running TV series, viewers want to see a good ending to the show; one that leaves on a high and which leaves the fans pleased. SASUKE has lasted a long time although it is special program, so I understand that it must end some day. I know it won't happen for #26, but perhaps they will look at your suggestions and we'll see SASUKE FINALE with all of the All-stars, New stars, MM people and SASUKE competitors that we have all watched over the years return for one last time. It would be cool to see our favorite competitors return and have a flashback of sorts for each one - joke and serious competitors. Put lots of money into this special and promote the hell out of it and have it go out with a bang- I'm all for that! I'm just worried that things will end badly and will leave a sour taste in our mouths. I hope the ratings are good for #26 and TBS will look at having an amazing finale to SASUKE instead of cancelling it and disappointing its fans that have remained faithful over the years. |
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Post by lostinube on Oct 29, 2010 6:14:37 GMT -5
The New Year Holiday runs from January 1st to January 3rd. From around the 28th or 29th of December, the TV channels switch to special programming. There are a wide variety of shows during this period. There are year end award shows, year in review shows, live music and so on.
On December 31st NHK runs the Kohaku Uta Gassen which rules the ratings period (although in decline, it still garners ratings in the 30s and 40s). Most of the counterprogamming on that night is MMA stuff to get those who aren't into the pop music scene.
After the Kohaku is finished, almost every channel has a live countdown show featuring dozens of talentos, comedians and musicians. And after midnight, the live programming is non-stop. It bleeds into January 1st. From then on, it's all variety show specials, two hour quiz shows and whatnot. It is NOT a ratings bonanza for most of the stations. Why? Because from the 31st everyone is moving around, either visiting families, shrines, hitting stores from the 1st to get their fukubukuros, meeting friends and so on. It is not a time to sit down and watch TV. If people are watching TV, they are channel surfing because there is so much stuff on TV all at the same time.
You are right that it's a good time to air SASUKE: the expectations for a show to do well is lower than usual. But during New Years it is NOT a showcase show. It is just another special that may or may not get lost in the shuffle. It is cheap cannon fodder. A decent rating is just a bonus.
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Post by quasikoz on Oct 29, 2010 7:56:07 GMT -5
So how much stock should we put into a good rating for Sasuke 26? I know a bad rating helps no one, but what would the odds be of Sasuke living on should it garner a good rating when it airs?
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lars072
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Post by lars072 on Oct 29, 2010 8:11:43 GMT -5
So how much stock should we put into a good rating for Sasuke 26? I know a bad rating helps no one, but what would the odds be of Sasuke living on should it garner a good rating when it airs? Based o ube's info, how can SASUKE be expected to get a good rating? It seems that TBS is doing everything it can to **** the show. It would be a miracle if #26 even came out with a decent rating. |
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Post by Badalight on Oct 29, 2010 8:14:50 GMT -5
It's actually a fairly good time to show it, Lars.
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Post by lostinube on Oct 29, 2010 8:22:48 GMT -5
It's actually a fairly good time to show it, Lars. Why do you think so? |
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Post by roy on Oct 29, 2010 8:37:33 GMT -5
Well, presumably because the pressure is off to garner high ratings, and its not expected to have high ratings. Maybe good for the longevity of the show, but not the popularity.
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Post by lostinube on Oct 29, 2010 8:45:12 GMT -5
Which is what I said earlier. But I'm not sure if Bada has another reason or not.
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lars072
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Post by lars072 on Oct 29, 2010 9:05:02 GMT -5
I would assume that if anyone knows the situation in Japan it's ube, so I have to go along with what he's saying. I assumed it would be a good time of the year to show SASUKE but apparently I am wrong. I know that in Taiwan my relatives would sometimes get together and watch SASUKE, Sportsman etc. as JET TV used to show a lot during Chinese New Year. But alas Japan and Taiwan are very different places.
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Post by lostinube on Oct 29, 2010 9:29:05 GMT -5
I'm just going by experience and research: TV at New Years is jam packed with so much programming that putting something like SASUKE, which needs all the help it can get regularly ratings-wise, is being thrown to the wolves by TBS. Looking at my previous statements, it might be that the glut of programming plays more of an important role than I thought. But the fact remains that New Years is a busy time for a lot of people. Even at the best of times, TBS has been regularly getting whomped by the other networks. I don't claim to be an expert on all these things but I try my best to back up my blather. These are the ratings according to Video Research Co for the Kanto area during New Years: www.videor.co.jp/data/ratedata/backnum/2010/vol1.htmwww.videor.co.jp/data/ratedata/backnum/2009/vol1.htmwww.videor.co.jp/data/ratedata/backnum/2008/vol1.htm |
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Oct 29, 2010 10:27:26 GMT -5
Finally a voice of reason  Thanks Ube. You and I differ a lot in how we approach things and what conclusions we draw out of the similar data but you are right. I didn't put into context what it would mean to put it at New Year's again given the current situation with Sasuke. For Sasuke 24 we didn't see the implications where they were trying to finish the Shin era as fast as possible. Personally (and I know you and I differ in this point of view) I think TBS is doing one last hurrah as if to say "Okay I gave you a chance even with the ridiculously sucky rating in March". If it miraculously garners double digits at this point it would be good but I still don't see how it's going to survive much longer. I've also heard loud and clear that outside of the hardcore fanbase in Japan.. it's pretty much over for obstacle course shows in Japan. Similar to here in the USA it being done after the 1970's that had a lot of obstacle course shows all battling each other (yes.. I'm old.. get over it guys.. I remember this stuff). There was a small resurgence here in the USA now but it took 30 years to get here. I'm sure Japan just has to go through the same process. I'd rather Sasuke, with a great 13 year history die like Takeshi's Castle and still have good memories for people rather than it be Taiiku no Jikan and be the laughing stock of Japanese television.. |
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Post by mikessssssss on Oct 29, 2010 11:15:43 GMT -5
I agree with Ube that they should change the format. If they make it less of a specatacle, or an event, and break it down into episodes rather than a six hour show then it could benefit the show by building expectation and such as well as catering to attention spans.
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Post by snowy on Oct 29, 2010 14:25:32 GMT -5
My feeling is that when the time comes for Sasuke to end, it'll just...end. No grandiose announcements or goodbyes, no nothin'. It might have lasted longer had M9 realized that fans were ready for new heroes, instead of pushing the AllStars as much as they did.
Ube, do Japanese TV networks typically announce that shows aren't being renewed? Seems like gameshows are on a revolving door.
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Post by lostinube on Oct 29, 2010 17:46:10 GMT -5
If it's a well known show, it may have a big ending. Some shows just go off into the night though.
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supersheep
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Post by supersheep on Oct 29, 2010 18:44:18 GMT -5
I hope they don't do something dramatic like SASUKE 26! THE FINAL CHAPTER!
That would just be depressing.
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Post by thatoneuser on Oct 30, 2010 8:58:09 GMT -5
THEORY:
SASUKE is now a New Year's Day only event. SASUKE 25 was just to give us a "silver anniversary" throwback course.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 30, 2010 10:20:43 GMT -5
I hope they don't do something dramatic like SASUKE 26! THE FINAL CHAPTER! That would just be depressing. Let's hope Bunpei returns if they do that. To see him go one last time. Nakata too. If it ends I'd be pissed. |
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Post by davidcampbell on Nov 4, 2010 23:52:08 GMT -5
What my brother told me who lived in Japan for 11 years was that New years is kinda like the the Japanes's Christmas and thanksgiving together. It's the one time of the year where they get time off work and just eat nice food and be with their family and veg out in fromt of the TV. New years day is when they have all the big superbowl type special events.
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Post by supernovamaniac on Nov 5, 2010 13:23:24 GMT -5
What my brother told me who lived in Japan for 11 years was that New years is kinda like the the Japanes's Christmas and thanksgiving together. It's the one time of the year where they get time off work and just eat nice food and be with their family and veg out in fromt of the TV. New years day is when they have all the big superbowl type special events. Same goes for most Asian countries (Korean experience, but both cultures are very similar) In terms of work, this would be the first big break that the businessmen get after the Thanksgiving (Chinese/Korean Thanksgiving, w.e.). Relatives get together, wishes each other happy new years, and spend a day together doing something, ranging from talking, cooking (aunts/grandmother), or just playing with cousins (good times =/). In terms of school, Asian countries usually have 2~3 month winter break. After this break, they have school for few more days, and the year ends (Korean schools started in March, not September). It's the end of the year for them, and they stay home doing winter homework or doing something else productive (starcraft?). Given all the possible combinations, the New Years Day (as well as Lunar New Years) is a great day for the family to get together and greet each other. On television? You have big name celebrities doing special shows. If you know a famous celebrity, they will be there doing some performances or something silly, just to entertain the families who actually tune into television that night. But given the situation, most families just turn on the TV but doesn't pay attention; just a small distraction for kids who love to annoy the parents. |
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Thanks Ube. You and I differ a lot in how we approach things and what conclusions we draw out of the similar data but you are right. I didn't put into context what it would mean to put it at New Year's again given the current situation with Sasuke. For Sasuke 24 we didn't see the implications where they were trying to finish the Shin era as fast as possible. Personally (and I know you and I differ in this point of view) I think TBS is doing one last hurrah as if to say "Okay I gave you a chance even with the ridiculously sucky rating in March". If it miraculously garners double digits at this point it would be good but I still don't see how it's going to survive much longer. I've also heard loud and clear that outside of the hardcore fanbase in Japan.. it's pretty much over for obstacle course shows in Japan. Similar to here in the USA it being done after the 1970's that had a lot of obstacle course shows all battling each other (yes.. I'm old.. get over it guys.. I remember this stuff). There was a small resurgence here in the USA now but it took 30 years to get here. I'm sure Japan just has to go through the same process. I'd rather Sasuke, with a great 13 year history die like Takeshi's Castle and still have good memories for people rather than it be Taiiku no Jikan and be the laughing stock of Japanese television.. 
