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Post by cole77000 on Jan 18, 2011 12:07:57 GMT -5
SASUKEUSA? Sorry SASUKE or nothing for me! That's a bit selfish I mean you don't have to watch it, but even if it's a ripoff I'd prefer that over Sasuke leaving me completely. Yeah Lars that is your opinion. Like Arsenette said if they make sasuke-ish programming like the Venice Beach stuff I would enjoy it. When I said SasukeUSA I meant more along the lines of four stages, celeberities, exact same rules, come japanese competitors, etc.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Jan 18, 2011 15:27:35 GMT -5
Nope I'm with Lars on this. Sasuke or nothing G4 can do what they want but they won't replicate Sasuke. It's just not what they want.. nor do they have the skills to pull off copying the original. Will they do an ANW? Yep. Will it work for them? Maybe. Will I watch? Nope
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 16:03:01 GMT -5
I think TBS should make their own "ANW" And no, not just simple Trials, I mean a complete 100% rip off of ANW. .. why.. most people thought the 2nd part of ANW sucked.. LOL (anything that was not Venice Beach).. Besides.. they have money problems.. you want them to produce yet another show with this nonexistent budget? The "most" people you are talking about is probably hardcore fans. I don't consider the Facebook page as a source of input, they are complete idiots. The money problems could be fixed, but my point is it's something TBS should look into. The current formula isn't working, it's time to change it up. G4 is the only group that has changed up the format, and it's worked.
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Post by arsenette on Jan 18, 2011 18:32:26 GMT -5
Considering that the "most" were actually casual fans.. they count as well.. they are viewers that G4 catered to big time and it failed once it hit the Boot camp. Multiple sources of that just Google Idiotic or not.. they are viewers and they lost a bunch of them the 2nd week. Money problems are nationwide.. not just TBS. Even THIS country has them. As for G4 they only changed a few key things that helped them get 0.3% rating and it dropped after that. I don't call that a monumental success.. all they did was throw new money from one company that had the cash. Japan doesn't have that kind of capital.. it's a totally different economy over there. I wish you would wrap your head around that ... cannot compare the USA with Japan when it comes to economics.
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Post by cole77000 on Jan 18, 2011 19:00:12 GMT -5
What does he mean by "changing the format" though? If he means something major like ANW to ANW2 yes it will be very difficult for TBS regarding the financial situation. If he means changing obstacles, it is totally doable. Getting celeberities will be a bit costlier though.
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Post by mikessssssss on Jan 18, 2011 19:22:11 GMT -5
New obstacles and an easier stage one = easier but won't fix the underlying problem of famous stars
New Famous contestants = harder and costlier but would probably help
Anything that means more money spent = an impossibility.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 19:40:05 GMT -5
Was the cost of ANW2 really that much?
I mean, ffs, M9 produces a 4 stage, GIANT a** course, and you are telling me Arsenette they can't make 6-9 obstacles, and a boot camp with 4-5 obstacles? This is without the fancy scenery.
Also, you don't know what the ratings were, all we got was first weeks, could they have dropped? Probably, but just because the fans say "IT SUXX" doesn't mean they aren't tuning in, and doesn't mean the majority of viewers aren't turning in. It doesn't mean anything. Infact, contreversy breeds views, so if anything, they could've gone UP.
I don't think you understand what Casual viewers do. Casual viewers do not go on Facebook pages for a show they barley know about, and rant about it.
Casual Viewers will look at a show, and than make a decision whether to leave the channel, or change it. They don't do much else, they ESPECIALLY don't go on the facebook page and b**** and moan about it.
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Post by TCM on Jan 18, 2011 19:56:08 GMT -5
I'm not attempting to takes sides on the issue, mainly because I'd rather not stress myself with how some responses can sound, but it seems like you're suggesting casual watchers can't have an opinion and express it other than saying "I like/hate it". Casual viewers can be vocal too.
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Post by arsenette on Jan 18, 2011 20:06:07 GMT -5
Was the cost of ANW2 really that much? I mean, ffs, M9 produces a 4 stage, GIANT a** course, and you are telling me Arsenette they can't make 6-9 obstacles, and a boot camp with 4-5 obstacles? This is without the fancy scenery. Also, you don't know what the ratings were, all we got was first weeks, could they have dropped? Probably, but just because the fans say "IT SUXX" doesn't mean they aren't tuning in, and doesn't mean the majority of viewers aren't turning in. It doesn't mean anything. Infact, contreversy breeds views, so if anything, they could've gone UP. I don't think you understand what Casual viewers do. Casual viewers do not go on Facebook pages for a show they barley know about, and rant about it. Casual Viewers will look at a show, and than make a decision whether to leave the channel, or change it. They don't do much else, they ESPECIALLY don't go on the facebook page and b*tch and moan about it. When a person writes out "I turned it off because it was crap..." that means they stopped watching. When they wrote "join me in the boycott".. that means they weren't watching".. when they say "I had it on for 5 minutes and realized it wasn't the beach thing.. and my father turned off the TV because there were better things to do".. they weren't watching. When they say "I'll stop watching and pick it up on the Tournament part next week".. it means they weren't watching. What part of those statements are you having an issue with? They are allowed to hate it as much as I did. I WISH they had done more of the Venice beach thing.. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 20:10:12 GMT -5
I'm not attempting to takes sides on the issue, mainly because I'd rather not stress myself with how some responses can sound, but it seems like you're suggesting casual watchers can't have an opinion and express it other than saying "I like/hate it". Casual viewers can be vocal too. It's rare, and when you combine the amount of people who like the show alot, and the amount who watch it every once in a while, it's overwhelmingly hardcore fans.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 20:11:18 GMT -5
Was the cost of ANW2 really that much? I mean, ffs, M9 produces a 4 stage, GIANT a** course, and you are telling me Arsenette they can't make 6-9 obstacles, and a boot camp with 4-5 obstacles? This is without the fancy scenery. Also, you don't know what the ratings were, all we got was first weeks, could they have dropped? Probably, but just because the fans say "IT SUXX" doesn't mean they aren't tuning in, and doesn't mean the majority of viewers aren't turning in. It doesn't mean anything. Infact, contreversy breeds views, so if anything, they could've gone UP. I don't think you understand what Casual viewers do. Casual viewers do not go on Facebook pages for a show they barley know about, and rant about it. Casual Viewers will look at a show, and than make a decision whether to leave the channel, or change it. They don't do much else, they ESPECIALLY don't go on the facebook page and b*tch and moan about it. When a person writes out "I turned it off because it was crap..." that means they stopped watching. When they wrote "join me in the boycott".. that means they weren't watching".. when they say "I had it on for 5 minutes and realized it wasn't the beach thing.. and my father turned off the TV because there were better things to do".. they weren't watching. When they say "I'll stop watching and pick it up on the Tournament part next week".. it means they weren't watching. What part of those statements are you having an issue with? They are allowed to hate it as much as I did. I WISH they had done more of the Venice beach thing.. LOL My issue is those people not watching effect 0.00001% of the 0.3% of American viewers watching. I think you need to wrap your head around the idea of how many people live on earth. It's far more than you think.
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Post by arsenette on Jan 18, 2011 20:20:09 GMT -5
My issue is those people not watching effect 0.00001% of the 0.3% of American viewers watching. I think you need to wrap your head around the idea of how many people live on earth. It's far more than you think. You do realize that a massive amount of the ratings IS casual. Hardcore will always watch but they honestly.. are very very small by comparison. That's what makes television ratings.. when the casual stops watching.. the ratings plummet.. so YES when "casual" get loud and say they are boycotting a show.. G4 should take notice.. and TBS should not emulate that. THAT is where TBS right now.. only hardcore are watching... they've lost the casual fans.
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Post by arsenette on Jan 18, 2011 20:23:27 GMT -5
Was the cost of ANW2 really that much? I mean, ffs, M9 produces a 4 stage, GIANT a** course, and you are telling me Arsenette they can't make 6-9 obstacles, and a boot camp with 4-5 obstacles? This is without the fancy scenery. Sorry missed this part entirely when I toggled. Why would M9 produce a show in the USA to save a show in Japan? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. What G4 does with ANW is G4's issue to deal with entirely. Their success/failure is not of M9's concern. TBS maybe since they apparently seem to be wanting to sell the show overseas as part of their international lineup.. but that doesn't help Sasuke in Japan with the Japanese audience. See the difference? M9 hasn't done a lot with the trials they have at home.. they aren't going to spend money they don't have to do anything in the USA. G4 has proven they want to do that themselves for their own glory. And frankly.. there are people that would watch that.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 21:25:39 GMT -5
My issue is those people not watching effect 0.00001% of the 0.3% of American viewers watching. I think you need to wrap your head around the idea of how many people live on earth. It's far more than you think. You do realize that a massive amount of the ratings IS casual. Hardcore will always watch but they honestly.. are very very small by comparison. That's what makes television ratings.. when the casual stops watching.. the ratings plummet.. so YES when "casual" get loud and say they are boycotting a show.. G4 should take notice.. and TBS should not emulate that. THAT is where TBS right now.. only hardcore are watching... they've lost the casual fans. You think those people are casual. I think those people are hardcore. Anybody who A. Has a life never watches a show, and than goes on the internet, finds the facebook page, and comments on it about how much it sucks. No casual viewer does that. Was the cost of ANW2 really that much? I mean, ffs, M9 produces a 4 stage, GIANT a** course, and you are telling me Arsenette they can't make 6-9 obstacles, and a boot camp with 4-5 obstacles? This is without the fancy scenery. Sorry missed this part entirely when I toggled. Why would M9 produce a show in the USA to save a show in Japan? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. What G4 does with ANW is G4's issue to deal with entirely. Their success/failure is not of M9's concern. TBS maybe since they apparently seem to be wanting to sell the show overseas as part of their international lineup.. but that doesn't help Sasuke in Japan with the Japanese audience. See the difference? M9 hasn't done a lot with the trials they have at home.. they aren't going to spend money they don't have to do anything in the USA. G4 has proven they want to do that themselves for their own glory. And frankly.. there are people that would watch that. Oh. Misunderstanding. When I said this I think TBS should make their own "ANW" And no, not just simple Trials, I mean a complete 100% rip off of ANW. I was talking about having a Japanese trial, shown in Japan, with the frame of ANW.
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Post by arsenette on Jan 18, 2011 21:56:12 GMT -5
a) Last time I checked.. Facebook are people of all kinds.. including "casual".. you do realize that by I don't know.. stating your opinion isn't a crime right? And just because you saw it at your Dad's one day and thought it sucked and posted on facebook doesn't make you hardcore.. Hardcore would have KNOWN this was happening rather than "who's the guy that won? The Fireman?".. Twitter also counts.. so does posting on anything. THEY are considered viewers and have valid opinions. I think you have a harder time with the fact that they actually got vocal.. This is the day and age of the internet. Everyone has an opinion and "gasp" have a life.. b) How would expanding their trials help with Sasuke? Casual Japanese don't watch it for the qualifiers.. Hardcore do. Expanding Trials which of course they have never done in the past will not help them with the casual.. casual could care less how people go there.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 22:08:26 GMT -5
Sorry for the long post. And I don't hate you <3 a) Last time I checked.. Facebook are people of all kinds.. including "casual".. you do realize that by I don't know.. stating your opinion isn't a crime right? And just because you saw it at your Dad's one day and thought it sucked and posted on facebook doesn't make you hardcore.. Hardcore would have KNOWN this was happening rather than "who's the guy that won? The Fireman?".. Twitter also counts.. so does posting on anything. THEY are considered viewers and have valid opinions. I think you have a harder time with the fact that they actually got vocal.. This is the day and age of the internet. Everyone has an opinion and "gasp" have a life.. Nope, I still disagree. Let me give you my perspective Arsenette, maybe this will help you see how I view things. So, all the forum threads about G4 on the "Viewer Feedback" thread are ALL negitive. Anytime you read a tweet about G4, especially about "Cops" it's "COPS SUXX G4 SUXX" 90% of the comments on G4's Youtube page is "G4 WAS MUCH BETTER BACK IN 2005! COPS? NINJA WARRIOR? SERIOUSLY G4 U SUCK." I could go on and on here. There's ALOT of criticism Arsenette, MANY people say they don't watch G4, MANY people say they've boycotted G4 for the change in direction, and you'd be right, many of them, probably don't watch G4 anymore. But guess what? The top 3 shows on G4? 1.Cops. 2.Cheaters. 3.Ninja Warrior. As of 2008. But what do viewers like? What shows get positive feedback? Xplay. Guess which show had to change formats because they were losing ratings? Xplay. Now, do you see how they don't cooralate? At all? Do you see how just because there's alot of criticism about a show, that doesn't mean anything whatsoever, because the sheer amount of people changing to G4 FAR outweighs the amount of people bitching and moaning about it on the internet? If they made it interesting, like how they made ANW interesting to all viewers, it would work. Hardcore viewers are, obviously, not the only viewers watching.
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Post by arsenette on Jan 18, 2011 22:28:39 GMT -5
Okay.. none of what you said has ANYTHING to do with how to fix Japan's ratings.. which is what we were supposed to be talking about. YOU brought up a point about using the ANW formula in Japan and it's just asinine for various reasons (including but not limited to) the fact that it sucked and many people on the internet thought so as well. I wasn't even referring to the Viewer feedback I was referring to Twitter, FB, G4 boards (NW section) and literally more than a dozen other websites if you took the time to Google it. I backed it up by saying that casual's hated it and explained how the ratings work in this country and why I know it went down. What G4 does with ANW is completely irrelevant to fixing Japan ratings.. which is why I knocked it down in such a way. Both are mutually exclusive. As for part b) No it will not work since apparently it's clear you don't understand how ratings work.. let alone in Japan. TBS HAS done a show for trials.. it was back in Sasuke 11? or something.. that didn't do so hot in the ratings and they ditched the concept. Navi doesn't have ratings at all which is why they just throw it in the middle of the afternoon and Kanto only since only the hardcore will care. P.S. I don't hate you either
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Post by jfeathe on Jan 18, 2011 22:42:06 GMT -5
I also believe the end of Kinniku Banzuke lead to the ratings decline. You have to remember that Banzuke featured some prominent Sasuke competitors like Kane and Monkiki and that some special episodes of Banzuke were devoted to trials style competitions.
Banzuke did incredibly well in the ratings and certainly attracted casual viewers along with hardcore fans. And as a result of all the Sasuke integration, casual Banzuke fans were automatically swept into the Sasuke craze.
Now that that gateway is gone, Sasuke has nothing to rely on other than its own advertising and big names. The post Banzuke ratings were fine for awhile but now it's at the point where a spark needs to be injected.
Sasuke 8 was in fall 2001, the last Sasuke that aired while Banzuke was still on tv was Sasuke 9. One month after Sasuke 9 aired, banzuke was done. I see a huge correlation to Banzukes demise and the ratings decline. I would even say it's the biggest reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 18, 2011 22:44:21 GMT -5
But the Sasuke trials aren't interesting.
I got bored watching it.
ANW introduces a more pleasurable experience, one that garners attention.
I do know how ratings work.
The whole "Since the internet hates it, it must not be popular", I've proven wrong, other shows do great despite the feedback.
We can disagree about that however.
My simply point is Sasuke needs a facelift, and I think learning how G4 did ANW, TBS and M9 need to emulate that for the Japanese audience.
Just like how ANW rejuvenated the Ninja Warrior series, JNW could very well do the same.
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Post by arsenette on Jan 18, 2011 23:07:58 GMT -5
jfeathe brought up the main point. He pointed to history rather than opinion Juice.. which is why I know for a fact it won't work. You may know how ratings "work" but you know nothing of Japanese culture. Either you refuse to understand it or never bother reading the history Ube has posted over and over and over again when this G4 correlation is brought up. Fact.. 0.3% of the country even WATCHES ANW.. the last thing Japan needs is to listen to a 3rd rate television station on how to run their own damn show.
jfeathe you are correct that a lot stemmed from Banzuke and even Ube has been harping about this point for about 3-4 years already.. Even wrote a long article about it and brought it up again last year when I wrote the State of Sasuke Post on my own blog. Out of Banzuke we got Yamada's rise to fame. His star started there (which is why I was always amused at the Mr. Sasuke title simply because he was Mr. Banzuke before that.. LOL) and where Akiyama came from, Kane and the majority of the other names we know from that era. It spawned Sasuke and Sportsman #1 and a couple other shows. M9 needs to find a way to bring back Banzuke without doing the mistake they did in another network where he was panned nationwide.
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