SHIN SASUKE - Looked harder than it actually was?

[SRW]

I was reminiscing today and watched SASUKE 19 where the course anhilated everyone so easily.

When you look back now who would have thought in only 5 tournaments time the course would be beaten?

I just thought it was a interesting thing to ponder over I think the biggest factor in shin SASUKE was definatly the first stage I think that alone dragged it out alot and stopped alot of people from getting further into the course much sooner.

When you really really look back on it now I concluded to myself anyway.

1st stage in shin sasuke was much harder than anything before you could argue 19 whe it really took off but still. And while towards the latter end of the era alot had started to get the measure of it and pass it consistantly it still threw up some shocks right to the end.

2nd stage Again comparing it in shin sasuke era as a whole it was definatly harder than the previous incarnations all be it being mainly thanks to the Salmon Ladder and Unstable bridge in the later ones.

3rd Stage again wasn't till 19 it really came into its proper shape for the rest of shin sasuke bar the odd tweak. I actually think looking back its a bit easier now than say 14 - 15 and even 16 to 17 era namely due to the lack of bodyprop curtain cling and even the rumbling dice to a degree. The only real harder parts of shin sasuke stage 3 are the Shin CliffHanger and the Hang Climb+spider flip(the climbing up to it).

Final Stage I think the previous final stage Makoto Nagano beat is a bit harder than this one but not by much and mainly due to the time which I felt should have been 35.

So just summing up to me it felt like stage 1 and 2 were upped but 3 didn't move up the same dephs in difficulty and kinda stayed the same and the final stage was about the same as the last one too.

The older shin tournaments have a more impossible feel namely down to the first stage and that psycology seems to make you feel a sense of the whole thing is impossible when you look back at 19 and 20.

[SasukeAnimator]

Yup I agree with you. I really like watching the earliest comps (1-4). Back then, you didn't have to be an amazing athlete to do well. Everyone seems so relaxed in the videos, as if they're there to have fun, and nothing else. *sigh*

[Badalight]

Yeah, this what me and about 1,000,000 have been saying for months.

I always thought the Shin Sasuke stage 3 and 4 were a downgrade, while stages 1 and 2 were an upgrade.

[SRW]

but were you saying that around 19 - 20 time?

[Deleted]

Isn't 19 hard because the sizes of gaps between obstacles (The Trampoline from the Jumping Spider, Halfpipe from the rope, Shute from the Rope, etc)


I think if everyone from Sasuke 25 (Yuugi, and all those new guys that appeared in 22) competed in 19, we'd only see a SLIGHTLY better result honestly.

And I gotta agree with Sasukeanimator. Some of the earlier tournaments (I'd go from 1-17) had that "Anyone can do it" first stage that I miss.

[SRW]

Jul 31, 2010 22:07:44 GMT -5 @jpjuice23 said:

Isn't 19 hard because the sizes of gaps between obstacles (The Trampoline from the Jumping Spider, Halfpipe from the rope, Shute from the Rope, etc)


I think if everyone from Sasuke 25 (Yuugi, and all those new guys that appeared in 22) competed in 19, we'd only see a SLIGHTLY better result honestly.

And I gotta agree with Sasukeanimator. Some of the earlier tournaments (I'd go from 1-17) had that "Anyone can do it" first stage that I miss.

Well thats kind of what I was getting at in terms of psycology of our perceptions of the course - because the first stage was such a killer in that one we kinda did not really think st 3 looked easier than before and instead thought this was all impossible looking too based on the fact if only the first stage is this bad how bad must those things be?

The POST Shin Sasuke 1st stage has a slightly more classic all rounder could do it feel. But 3 is insanly hard and very few are ever going to pass that.
But not gonna talk about that here at least for 13 more days lol!

[Badalight]

Jul 31, 2010 21:41:34 GMT -5 SRW said:

but were you saying that around 19 - 20 time?

lol, what do you think? We didn't even see the final stage until 22, of course I wasn't saying that.

But I don't think I EVER thought Shin-Sasuke had a 3rd stage harder than the 14-15 one.

Barring the Shin-Cliffhanger, it all looked real simple.

[SRW]

well ok barring the final yea we had no idea what it was at all till end of 20 ie that a ladder was involved but thats another thing.

But I do agree 18s st 3 was pretty bad hence 19s looked quite a jump and it looked more intimidating in light of what happened with st 1 and 2 just dispatching everyone like that and when they previews st 3 in the credits stuff like the Sending climber kinda made you go "what the hell is that?" straight into the spider flip lol ( I was clueless how that worked at the time till I was shown the viking clip).

[TCM]

I feel people don't really give Shin Sasuke much credit besides 19. People see it was only 7 tournaments and downplay its difficulty. Now was it harder than the other two? In some parts, yes, in others, no. But it almost, ALMOST seems like it downplays Yuuji's win a bit. Hell, Nagano took 8 tournaments to nearly beat it in 12. So I wasn't surprised to see it beat in 7 tournaments, or 5 after 19 since that was the topic in question. But every era was hard in some parts and easy in others.

[Deleted]

I really wish the kept 20 just like 19, and so on. Lowering the difficulty was a mistake imo.

[Badalight]

Because 3rd stage and the final quickly became a joke. When in the 5-17 did you ever see 5 finalists in the final stage?

Not that Shin Sasuke was EASY or anything, but I'd much prefer a hard stage 3 and 4 than a hard stage 1 and 2.

The difficulty was almost backwards. Stage 4 was a bit too easy. The time limit really could've been 5 seconds lower, and I've preached about stage 3 enough.

Really, people say it's easy because it was almost a step BACK. When at first you'd think a complete renewal would make everything harder. Then people started the realize that wasn't necessarily the case, as a lot of people agree the old stage 3 and 4 were tougher.

[artyfowljr]

Yeah, that's the point, Shin Sasuke was backwards. First Stage : hard. Second Stage : hard, Third Stage : easy, Final : easy-ish.
Obviously I'm talking about the competitors' point of view. When I say Stage 3 was too easy I don't mean I myself could beat it, but strong competitors could.
You guys pretty much said it all. Should have been shorter paths in Stage 1, 35 seconds limit in the final, and harder stage 3. Oh but there's one thing I want to say about Stage 3,obstacles should have worked properly!!! *cough* grinding ring *cough*
I know it's not all their fault, s*t happens, but still... /sigh

[scnoi1217]

It wasn't necessarily easy, but when you have the exact same Third Stage for 2.5 years, realstically anyone could beat it. Same goes for a 14/15 Third Stage or any change. Leave it identical and people will adapt and train for it, simple. I think the biggest problems with Shin-Sasuke is that 1) M9 didn't stick to their guns and 2) it ended too quickly. I firmly believe if M9 got their way, that the course would have a 19-22 difficulty throughout its lifetime. However ratings and tbs stopped that from happening. i wish ratings werent a problem so e could see what the producers really could think up. Instead, we got good ideas that were evntually watered down or stages that stayed exactly the same. After 19, the only major new obstacles were the Slider Jump and the Unstable Bridge. That's it. Now I'm all for letting the competitors catch up to the difficulty and then changing, but that didn't happen at the end. Also look at how it ended: At the end of 2008, we had 2 sch clears, one attempt of the seventh and eighth obstables, and no finalists. In 2009 alone we had 14 sch clears and 8 finalists and in the final two stages there was 1 new obstacle, which did nothing. If the producers had added in new obstacles to try to stop competitors, and Yuuji still managed to win, that would add more merit to his win. Same could be said for Nagano in 13. If the producers did nothin to stop him in that tournament, and he won, it would look cheap and set up. Its nothing personal against Yuuji, although shoegate didnt help, it is more backlash at M9 and tbs.

[jfeathe]

I've already said this before, but the producers put WAY too much emphasis on the first stage. As a result, very few people cleared the first stage in 19, and 20 (and 18 for that matter) which made the later stages look even more impossible and unattainable. Since so few people made it that far, there was no reason to change anything until people started actually getting there.

21 had a fair amount of 1st stage clears, but only 3 people reached the 3rd stage. Again, very few people got deep in the course.

22 had an extremely difficult first stage and only 5 cleared. Even though the 2nd stage was pretty much destroyed, only 4 people made the 3rd stage which is not even comparable to the amount of 3rd stage competitors in the 5-17 era.

23 had a shockingly unexpected number of 1st stage and 2nd stage clears. Basically, there was no way to predict it. However, it's clear they didn't want a total victory that soon because of the Final Stage time limit reduction.

24: Again unexpected (in my opinion). We knew someone was close, but I wasn't very confident they could actually pull it off.

[Badalight]

Why was it unexpected someone would win in 24 again? Especially after TBS downright said there would be a winner.

[RiderLeangle]

Aug 2, 2010 14:17:05 GMT -5 Badalight said:

Why was it unexpected someone would win in 24 again? Especially after TBS downright said there would be a winner.

You do realize they said that AFTER it had filmed right?....

[Badalight]

uhm... obviously.. I thought when he said (in my opinion) he was saying it as sort of denying the rumours floating around spawned from TBS's statement.

[jfeathe]

Aug 2, 2010 19:47:46 GMT -5 Badalight said:

uhm... obviously.. I thought when he said (in my opinion) he was saying it as sort of denying the rumours floating around spawned from TBS's statement.

Honestly, I never knew what to make of that commercial.

Anyway, what I meant was that it was unexpected based on previous competitions.

After 18, 19, and 20 aired, everyone was talking about "oh, the Shin-Cliff Hanger's impossible. They need to make it easier" or "the Salmon Ladder needs to be in the third stage." Who would have ever thought the entire course could be demolished just 4 tournaments later?

Even Sasuke 21 gave a feeling of hopelessness. And the disastrous results from 22 were barely saved by Yuuji's final stage attempt.

Sasuke 23 looked brighter and had amazing first and second stage, but the final stage time reduction destroyed what I and others though would be a sure victory.

M9 did everything they could, but ultimately, the competitors started improving at an unbelievable rate. At first the course looked impossible, but the turn around was amazing. They couldn't risk the horrible results of Sasuke 18-20 and change the third stage especially after how long it took to consistently get people there.

[Badalight]

Aug 2, 2010 23:00:49 GMT -5 jfeathe said:

Aug 2, 2010 19:47:46 GMT -5 Badalight said:

uhm... obviously.. I thought when he said (in my opinion) he was saying it as sort of denying the rumours floating around spawned from TBS's statement.

M9 did everything they could, but ultimately, the competitors started improving at an unbelievable rate. At first the course looked impossible, but the turn around was amazing. They couldn't risk the horrible results of Sasuke 18-20 and change the third stage especially after how long it took to consistently get people there.

Well that's where you're wrong. M9 didn't do everything that they could, or else they would've made it harder. They would've changed more obstacle in stage 3, but the thing was, the ratings were bad and they wanted someone to win... simple as that

Or maybe they didn't WANT someone to win, but it was certainly setup for there to be a winner. You think it's just coincidence that when someone finally won they were offering a car?



I was totally expecting it to end soon, maybe not 24 specifically, but I didn't think it would last past 26 that's for sure.

[intelligentinfer]

Aug 2, 2010 23:00:49 GMT -5 jfeathe said:

Aug 2, 2010 19:47:46 GMT -5 Badalight said:

uhm... obviously.. I thought when he said (in my opinion) he was saying it as sort of denying the rumours floating around spawned from TBS's statement.

Honestly, I never knew what to make of that commercial.

Anyway, what I meant was that it was unexpected based on previous competitions.

After 18, 19, and 20 aired, everyone was talking about "oh, the Shin-Cliff Hanger's impossible. They need to make it easier" or "the Salmon Ladder needs to be in the third stage." Who would have ever thought the entire course could be demolished just 4 tournaments later?

Even Sasuke 21 gave a feeling of hopelessness. And the disastrous results from 22 were barely saved by Yuuji's final stage attempt.

Sasuke 23 looked brighter and had amazing first and second stage, but the final stage time reduction destroyed what I and others though would be a sure victory.

M9 did everything they could, but ultimately, the competitors started improving at an unbelievable rate. At first the course looked impossible, but the turn around was amazing. They couldn't risk the horrible results of Sasuke 18-20 and change the third stage especially after how long it took to consistently get people there.

The competitors in 24 had shocking results (Tajima, Hashimoto). But they can just make the stg 2 & 3 gay (what they did in 13-14).