arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Dec 21, 2009 2:57:27 GMT -5
Agreed.. besides.. this isn't Kunoichi they are trying out for
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Post by davidcampbell on Dec 21, 2009 4:04:43 GMT -5
-i don't think obstacles from stage 3 have any place in a sasuke trial. If you want competitors that can't get past stage 3 then I'd agree. Of the 10 they sent the only people who had any chance of clearing stage 3 were Travis and Levi. (sorry Shane no offence intended, I'm still glad you went!) Travis had the Cliffhanger down cold, Levi had been training for it but had his 1st sucessful run just days before going to Japan so he was still a little iffy. Brian and Rich did great on stage 1, but even if they got through stage 2, you know it's going to end in stage 3 for them no matter what. I like to see Americans go that I think have at least a chance at total victory. So I think the first cut should be basted on 1st stage speed stuff, but then the next cut should be people that can't do stage 2/3 stuff. And then for a final have like a huge rope climb on a crane or something! -i like david, but what happened to him (and other finalists) was not unfair - it was 100% necessary. you shouldn't be in Sasuke if you have no stamina i loved the strength training-focused thing as the final. Strength and stamina are obviously critical for Sasuke, but the brick/bungee shuttle run in the sand wasn't a good test of the kind of strenth or stamina you need for Sasuke. For example myself and William spencer had top times on both versions of the obstacle course. We were able to push harder than almost everyone to keep moving fast when we were getting tired (you see William just fall down after setting the fastest time in semi-finals. That dude was nuts!). The beach thing took us both out because it was about being big and strong. A 300lb weight lifter or football player would have don'e GREAT carrying those bricks, but put them on Sasuke and watch then fall into the water on the Sextuple steps! Sasuke is about you vs. your bodyweight for the most part. That shuttle run was the opposite of Sasuke, you vs. carrying heavy s**t with a bungee cord pulling at your back, Ugi probably would have died being so tiny! Don't get me wrong, it was a great workout. You really have no idea everyone was on their a** dying for like 15 minutes after they were done (except Travis, he was kinda un-phased by it and hardly breathing heavy) but then he was the biggest person there I think? Anyway the results speak for themselves. How many of the people that were selected by that final were the ones that had the bottom times of the final 15 in the obstacle course and ended up getting tired and not making it up the Warped Wall in Japan? The people eliminated by it, myself, Ryan "Cloud" Cousins, Sean Morris, William Spencer; some of the top people as far as Sasuke related skills, we all would have cleared stage one pretty easily I think, Sean could have possibly cleared stage 3 too if he was lucky, being that he has great grip and I definitely could have cleared stage 3, as it's really the main thing I train for.
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Post by davidcampbell on Dec 21, 2009 4:38:21 GMT -5
Haha, no I DID tell him that! He said he searched the parking lot but found nothing....after his run he walked into the massage tent and saw the trampoline leaning against a wall!!!!! Did you at least tell him he should do a quick test because of how different the trampoline is? Travis's problem was tht he didnt extend his right leg far enough. jaw dropping failure. If I remember correctly it looked like his problem was more with the walls. he seemed to have enough height. Actually I told him not to test the trampoline because it would take too much time! Though since they made the course so much easier on time for Sasuke 24 (because of that speedy 2nd obstacle and easier Slider Jump) he could have taken the time and been fine. The problem he had was 2 part. He got a bad bounce off the tramp and he got kinda crooked as a result, though if he had been more flexible or reacted faster he could have saved it by extending his left leg probably? (this is basically what he told me)
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Post by RiderLeangle on Dec 21, 2009 4:48:51 GMT -5
Did you at least tell him he should do a quick test because of how different the trampoline is? If I remember correctly it looked like his problem was more with the walls. he seemed to have enough height. Actually I told him not to test the trampoline because it would take too much time! Though since they made the course so much easier on time for Sasuke 24 (because of that speedy 2nd obstacle and easier Slider Jump) he could have taken the time and been fine. The problem he had was 2 part. He got a bad bounce off the tramp and he got kinda crooked as a result, though if he had been more flexible or reacted faster he could have saved it by extending his left leg probably? (this is basically what he told me) Well aside from Sasuke 22 having the strictest time limits and 23 having one of the most open (aside from 18) of Shin Sasuke I noticed something. If things went differently in 22 (assuming in this alternate timeline you STILL didn't find a parking lot trampoline), You tested the trampoline and then rested, that's pretty much a trade off thing (this was true back in the jump hang days). So had you either not tested or not rested you probably could have had a 0.? or 1.? clear. Then again both probably were vital but it was something I noticed back in march and really haven't had the chance to tell you until now XD
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Post by davidcampbell on Dec 21, 2009 6:41:30 GMT -5
Actually I told him not to test the trampoline because it would take too much time! Though since they made the course so much easier on time for Sasuke 24 (because of that speedy 2nd obstacle and easier Slider Jump) he could have taken the time and been fine. The problem he had was 2 part. He got a bad bounce off the tramp and he got kinda crooked as a result, though if he had been more flexible or reacted faster he could have saved it by extending his left leg probably? (this is basically what he told me) Well aside from Sasuke 22 having the strictest time limits and 23 having one of the most open (aside from 18) of Shin Sasuke I noticed something. If things went differently in 22 (assuming in this alternate timeline you STILL didn't find a parking lot trampoline), You tested the trampoline and then rested, that's pretty much a trade off thing (this was true back in the jump hang days). So had you either not tested or not rested you probably could have had a 0.? or 1.? clear. Then again both probably were vital but it was something I noticed back in march and really haven't had the chance to tell you until now XD Oh yeah I wasted a lot of time doing stupid s*** I didn't need to do like stopping before the warped wall path and before the HPA. For the record though, I wasn't resting before the Jumping Spider so much as looking a sizing it up. I REALLY didn't wanna f*** that one up! Right away when I got back from Japan I started training to move faster between the obstacles.
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Post by RiderLeangle on Dec 21, 2009 11:22:57 GMT -5
Well aside from Sasuke 22 having the strictest time limits and 23 having one of the most open (aside from 18) of Shin Sasuke I noticed something. If things went differently in 22 (assuming in this alternate timeline you STILL didn't find a parking lot trampoline), You tested the trampoline and then rested, that's pretty much a trade off thing (this was true back in the jump hang days). So had you either not tested or not rested you probably could have had a 0.? or 1.? clear. Then again both probably were vital but it was something I noticed back in march and really haven't had the chance to tell you until now XD Oh yeah I wasted a lot of time doing stupid s**t I didn't need to do like stopping before the warped wall path and before the HPA. For the record though, I wasn't resting before the Jumping Spider so much as looking a sizing it up. I REALLY didn't wanna f**k that one up! Right away when I got back from Japan I started training to move faster between the obstacles. You probably should have done that on the walk up to the trampoline. XD As for the path, maybe you should have slowed down but not stopped, so you don't pull a shingo (Which you must have had a unique viewing angle of XD). That's a good plan because the paths between obstacles take up more time than the obstacles themselves, Look at Levi for example, The obstacles himself he's not exactly fast at (His spider walking speed could improve if he wants to beat his time again XD) but he literally runs between the obstacles and never stops and that's how he usually ends up with the best clearing times. I definitely recommend people should run between obstacles (assuming they have practiced alot of running and that doesn't kill all their stamina) and not walk or semi-run between them.
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Post by GregPuciato on Dec 21, 2009 19:49:01 GMT -5
If you want competitors that can't get past stage 3 then I'd agree. ... The beach thing took us both out because it was about being big and strong. A 300lb weight lifter or football player would have don'e GREAT carrying those bricks, but put them on Sasuke and watch then fall into the water on the Sextuple steps! Sasuke is about you vs. your bodyweight for the most part. That shuttle run was the opposite of Sasuke, you vs. carrying heavy s**t with a bungee cord pulling at your back, Ugi probably would have died being so tiny! i think asking for people that can pass stage three is asking for quite a lot. i personally think the ultimate test should be the tournament itself. i definitely see where you're coming from though. as for the finals being inappropriate, i'll have to disagree - you don't have to be a behemoth for the brick carrying and bungee run. It would definitely help, and a football player or something would definitely have an advantage, but they want people who are well-rounded. I know some guys who are extremely strong and very light. A runner who is also explosive and has great grip strength could have faired well, from what i could tell. But i don't know for sure...i guess you would know much better than i would...you actually ran it! haha and after reading what Arsenette (Hi, btw!) said about the judges...that's rough man. I do think you would have put up a great performance in Japan.
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Post by davidcampbell on Dec 21, 2009 20:45:05 GMT -5
If you want competitors that can't get past stage 3 then I'd agree. ... The beach thing took us both out because it was about being big and strong. A 300lb weight lifter or football player would have don'e GREAT carrying those bricks, but put them on Sasuke and watch then fall into the water on the Sextuple steps! Sasuke is about you vs. your bodyweight for the most part. That shuttle run was the opposite of Sasuke, you vs. carrying heavy s**t with a bungee cord pulling at your back, Ugi probably would have died being so tiny! i think asking for people that can pass stage three is asking for quite a lot. i personally think the ultimate test should be the tournament itself. i definitely see where you're coming from though. as for the finals being inappropriate, i'll have to disagree - you don't have to be a behemoth for the brick carrying and bungee run. It would definitely help, and a football player or something would definitely have an advantage, but they want people who are well-rounded. I know some guys who are extremely strong and very light. A runner who is also explosive and has great grip strength could have faired well, from what i could tell. But i don't know for sure...i guess you would know much better than i would...you actually ran it! haha and after reading what Arsenette (Hi, btw!) said about the judges...that's rough man. I do think you would have put up a great performance in Japan. Thanks. And yeah I see you point and agree somewhat, Levi did really well in the brick run and he also did great on the course. And like I said it is a great workout. BUT, I definitely don't think that carrying bricks should be a requirement to go to Japan. Many people such as Yugi like I mentioned probably would do horrible at carring bricks, but then dominate Sasuke. Also it didn't work very well at selecting well rounded competitors, as you saw many of them run out of gas at the warped wall. And it WAS running out of gas. The Sasuke warped wall isn't any harder than the ANW one really, just that you're a lot more tired by the time you get to the wall at Sasuke. The run up to the wall at ANW is actually shorter than Sasuke. Carrying bricks is good to do for training, sure...but it's seems pretty simple to me: If you want to find the boxer that punches the hardest, do you have a bench press competition or do you have them actually punch something with a force meter on it? If you want to find the best rock climber, do you hold a pull up competition or do you have a rock climbing competition? if you want to find the fastest bicycleist to have a leg press competion, or do you put them on a bike and see who's fastest? If you want people to do well at Sasuke do you have them carry bricks or run a Sasuke course? One more flaw in the test was that everything in Sasuke with the exeption of the Wall Lift is dependant on your own bodyweight, which is why an 80 lb girl can do better than a 180 lb olimpic athlete. But in the ANW final everyone was carrying the same size bricks with (supposedly) the same tention bungee cord, so lighter people like myself, William, and even Levi were at a disadvantage. And finally I noticed even before my run that most of the people on the red line were struggling more than the others. I have to wonder how accuratly they measured the bungee's and distances to the tires as they were rushing to set this up at the very last minute? A differance on 1 foot is HUGE when the bungee is pulling you harder with each inch you stretch it out! There are just so many thing's that were a bad idea about the finals, pretty much the entire 15 of us were like "WTF is this?!?" when we saw it. I'm pretty sure they'll change it next time, but I'm working on my legs more just in case they don't! It was a lot of fun though. I'm excited to go to the next one just for the hell of it, regardless of the Japan trip prize.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Dec 21, 2009 20:49:37 GMT -5
Kinda reminds me a little bit of what Ryo Matachi (UNCLI #4) went through with Trials. He trained all the grip strength stuff and the first thing they did was start with a marathon.. he lost.. then he trained to run and they added hanging off a Cliffhanger and timing who falls first.. he was going wtf ... I swear G$ and TBS are secretly working with each other lately LOL J/K. I do hope it's better next time because quite frankly.. this is it.. there's no other way.
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Post by Ninja Chris on Dec 21, 2009 20:49:41 GMT -5
I've always believed that the reason behind the training football players use (Which was very similar to what was used in the Finals), was to increase their speed and agility, while retaining their huge size, which was bulked up in the gym and food... Not through sprinting with weight.
Although I hate what the judges did to the last few of you guys, I honestly wonder if maybe they had something there. I'm hoping to get a running parachute for X-Mas, and will be getting some bricks like those used in the Finals.
A little back-story: When I tried out for American Gladiators (Back 2 years ago when I hadn't even been truly training, and was going for the novelty of the show rather than my commitment found later in Sasuke), I was able to do the pullups and basics like anyone else normal, but nearly passed out when told to run 10 suicides. It as the first time I had ever heard of such a exercise, and I knew there was no way I could compete if I made it, due to such a lack of stamina. Regardless of how I felt I could do on their show.
Well, same applys here. As soon as I saw that, the first thing I thought of, was that tryout. A bit of sprinting never hurt anyone (for long anyway), and although it won't really help with any individual obstacle, I think it may help out with stamina, and help keep a clear head between obstacles.
I'm gonna give it a go.
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Post by gtoneko on Dec 21, 2009 20:52:38 GMT -5
I actually thought ANW was pretty good. It wasn't great, but it was good. The setup for the whole thing wasn't perfect, but it's a start to get a feel of what to do in the near future, as long as M9 doesn't pull a fast tournament so soon once again.
With the way they did the qualifying rounds, it was ok, actually gave a good hint of what to somewhat expect, mainly with the drops in the Pipe Slider since there are MANY obstacles that will have hard, forceful drops. In the semi's, they brought back a obstacle that was used a few times in the actual Sasuke course and gave everyone a little something to expect with the Jumping Bars (despite there being no actual trampoline on Sasuke). For the finals, it's REALLY give or take in my view, but it did give everyone a good wake up call/shock to expect the unexpected (Sorry David. *bows profusely*)
It was at least good to see the actual full runs for Sasuke for the Americans since the actual Sasuke 23 broadcast skimmed through almost all of them. All in all, it's a start like I mentioned before, not perfect, but not a total failure either.
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Post by davidcampbell on Dec 21, 2009 21:07:07 GMT -5
Yeah. Like I said. The brick run IS great excercise and totally builds stamina for sure. And that is what makes Stage one of Sasuke so hard is that you're tired by the end and are getting weak and can't thnk straight! So yes definately do exercises like this as training!
But it's still no accurate guage at how well someone will do at Sasuke, as is evident by the numurous warped wall timeouts.
And yeah I though ANW was great too, needs tweaking here and there but a good first go. Next time us competitors and the course designers will both have a better idea of what to expect.
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Ninja Chris
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Post by Ninja Chris on Dec 21, 2009 21:38:27 GMT -5
Yeah. Like I said. The brick run IS great excercise and totally builds stamina for sure. And that is what makes Stage one of Sasuke so hard is that you're tired by the end and are getting weak and can't thnk straight! So yes definately do exercises like this as training! But it's still no accurate guage at how well someone will do at Sasuke, as is evident by the numurous warped wall timeouts. And yeah I though ANW was great too, needs tweaking here and there but a good first go. Next time us competitors and the course designers will both have a better idea of what to expect. I've been thinking a *lot* about what you said at LA about doing something like pullups, then running to the next 'obstacle', doing pushups, running to the next, etc. Then doing it again and again over time, trying to find ways to cut time between, and anywhere possible. Didn't you have a name for that? Tabata or something like that?
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Post by RiderLeangle on Dec 22, 2009 1:31:39 GMT -5
I just realized there WAS a sollution based on real Monster9 courses of what ANW should have done. Kunoichi 6, Stage 2. Have the best times move on but still have a challenging (I guess...) time limit for it.
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Post by davidcampbell on Dec 22, 2009 1:36:31 GMT -5
Tabata is something different, google it, it's pretty intense stuff!
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Post by davidcampbell on Dec 22, 2009 17:40:55 GMT -5
Just posted a thread dedicated to suggestions to G4/ Pilgram for ANW2 Everyone go put in a suggestion. Try to keep them quick and concise without ranting so they actually read it! forums.g4tv.com/showthread.php?t=141528
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Dec 22, 2009 18:38:14 GMT -5
Just posted my thoughts
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Post by Badalight on Dec 23, 2009 12:39:21 GMT -5
1. How did the guy who got the fastest times in both the qualifying round and the semi-finals (sorry, I forget his name ) get eliminated during the middle of the finals? You must've not been paying attention. After his run he was exhausted and collapsed. G4 had like a 1 minute section talking about how he got heat exhaustion, and had to go to the hospital. He was released later that day but wasn't back in time for the next part of the finals, meaning he was eliminated. Guess you were doing something else during that minute?
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Post by yamfriend on Dec 23, 2009 21:14:25 GMT -5
Guess you were doing something else during that minute? Yeah, I was eating dinner. That stunk a lot for him though. He really had a good potential had this not happened to him.
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Post by Badalight on Dec 25, 2009 9:28:35 GMT -5
I can sympathize with him.
Heat exhaustion sucks, especially at times like this.
The first time it ever happend to me was during Soccer tryouts. I was really over-working myself trying to get onto the varsity team and if I kept playing it could've been bad. Luckily I figured out something was wrong and we got me help before it was too bad.
Now it's a reocurring thing with me and I have to watch how hard I'm working in high temperatures.
It really sucks, I feel bad for him.
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