arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 28, 2018 12:20:56 GMT -5
They don't exist in a vacuum though. When compared to the other stations they are not getting the advertising pool that they used to based on ratings. That explains why when Rising started they only could get 1 tournament a year. Had it not been for the Esquire money it would have been stuck at 1 a year since TBS doesn't allocate money the same to all of it's programs. Japan's market is fluctuating a lot and that is a part of it (meaning there are less and less viewers as a pool in general) but consistently not winning timeslots is new to Sasuke. They were always top 3 and now not so much. That affects how much they can command in terms of advertising revenue. Sasuke is not growing which is probably why it's being re-branded as Ninja Warrior hoping to get outside help since clearly in Japan it's failing hard. Oh I 100% agree. Adding "Ninja Warrior" is so clearly in the "Last Ditch Effort" category as far as I am concerned. They wanted SASUKE 35 to be a hit so badly and honestly I think it put them 1 step closer to the grave with some of the mistakes they made. In Japan, SASUKE has not been growing in years. My understanding is that it's losing timeslots now because only the core dedicated fans remain, whereas new shows have a lot more potential to gain new fans. I don't expect SASUKE to ever win a timeslot again honestly, I don't think it's mathematically feasible, even with adverts and a Kanzenseiha Yeah I don't think so either. They are kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place. They can't do what Higuchi did (because Higuchi would throw money at things to the point of bankrupt) but Inui is so prideful he hates hearing any debate about his "choices".. Lord knows I've argued enough with him about those things. So what you see is what he's going to make out of the tournament even it didn't resemble what was there. LOL That's not going to change. Pissing of the last people watching though is .. dangerous. We've been calling it Ninja Warrior for a while now anyway so it wasn't surprising. It hasn't been "Sasuke" in a long time and we all knew it. So seeing it on the moniker and on screen just confirmed what we've seen for a long time. At least they are owning up to it now. Yeah. The story of the clickbait is worrisome. In general though most of the Sasuke group (Inui included) ignore that type of stuff since he's given a job to do and they expect people will forget their transgressions. Ratings are an indication that no.. they haven't forgiven them since it has not raised. Only the hardcore are watching. Most casual already left the show and openly say that they haven't watched a show since the Monster 9 days. With Nagano gone there's no one else they are attached to. We'll see what happens. Come hell or high water they will venture on until there is no money left (and we know there isn't any left now). The spin offs prove that they don't need Sasuke Japan to exist and thrive in the international market. Hell.. Ninja Warrior (Japan) worldwide hasn't been a thing in what.. 7 years? So I expect it will be done at/around 2020. I'm sure they want to go on a high note so they are gunning for Morimoto to win it all and stop there. Me too, I am positive at this point the next Kanzenseiha will be the last, and that they want to go out on a high note. I can't speak for everybody, but I will be happy with that. I feel like the show is winding down. Plus Inui said he'd consider a DVD boxset after the show ends and boy I am ready for an unreasonably overpriced boxset Inui doesn't control that.. only agreeing to edit things for the disk. He's refused touching the old stuff since he's not paid for any of it (the wages for anyone working on Sasuke is downright criminal... ). So I'm assuming he's editing it for the disk then chopping stuff out to fit the broadcast times. I personally hate that kind of editing.. but I know why he does it. They just don't pay him enough for it as it's just one contract with literally everything on it (even if they tack things on at the end which usually happens). But the actual existence of the DVD is not up to him. They didn't sell a lot of the other one so TBH I doubt we will see it. If they announce it.. you bet the show has been cancelled.
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Eclipse
Satō Jun
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Post by Eclipse on Mar 28, 2018 12:49:31 GMT -5
Me too, I am positive at this point the next Kanzenseiha will be the last, and that they want to go out on a high note. I can't speak for everybody, but I will be happy with that. I feel like the show is winding down. Plus Inui said he'd consider a DVD boxset after the show ends and boy I am ready for an unreasonably overpriced boxset Inui doesn't control that.. only agreeing to edit things for the disk. He's refused touching the old stuff since he's not paid for any of it (the wages for anyone working on Sasuke is downright criminal... ). So I'm assuming he's editing it for the disk then chopping stuff out to fit the broadcast times. I personally hate that kind of editing.. but I know why he does it. They just don't pay him enough for it as it's just one contract with literally everything on it (even if they tack things on at the end which usually happens). But the actual existence of the DVD is not up to him. They didn't sell a lot of the other one so TBH I doubt we will see it. If they announce it.. you bet the show has been cancelled. I'm a simple person, and I never said that it had to be a complete or extended boxset. Even if the old episodes are just the broadcasts with the music stripped, I won't complain. Or even if the boxset is only 28 to 36+, not going to complain either. I mean the first one was 12,000 yen for essentially 1 episode which is very expensive. Not really surprised it didn't sell well...... I say as it sits on the shelf at home. I've actually watched it few times but 30 is one of my absolute favorite tournaments.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 28, 2018 13:05:01 GMT -5
Inui doesn't control that.. only agreeing to edit things for the disk. He's refused touching the old stuff since he's not paid for any of it (the wages for anyone working on Sasuke is downright criminal... ). So I'm assuming he's editing it for the disk then chopping stuff out to fit the broadcast times. I personally hate that kind of editing.. but I know why he does it. They just don't pay him enough for it as it's just one contract with literally everything on it (even if they tack things on at the end which usually happens). But the actual existence of the DVD is not up to him. They didn't sell a lot of the other one so TBH I doubt we will see it. If they announce it.. you bet the show has been cancelled. I'm a simple person, and I never said that it had to be a complete or extended boxset. Even if the old episodes are just the broadcasts with the music stripped, I won't complain. Or even if the boxset is only 28 to 36+, not going to complain either. I mean the first one was 12,000 yen for essentially 1 episode which is very expensive. Not really surprised it didn't sell well...... I say as it sits on the shelf at home. I've actually watched it few times but 30 is one of my absolute favorite tournaments. Oh it wasn't accusatory. I meant in general that despite him saying they will do a DVD the previous test balloon sank into the swamp. They charged too much for a single episode and did a terrible job at marketing it. So many wanted the full set but they won't get it. Unless someone is already a fan of the Rising era it won't make any sense to buy the current stuff. That's why it failed. And I already asked about the old stuff without the music.. he won't reedit it. It's far more complicated and no one had signed releases including talent (like announcers, interview reporters, etc.) so the logistical nightmare of trying to get that 20 years after the fact is not feasible. That's why they did a "history" special in the Sasuke 30 DVD. As for the music.. that's why they went ahead and bought stock music for Sasuke. They WANTED to do a DVD for the Rising era.. but... they screwed it up and it didn't sell well. I still contend that if it was sold as a region free and open to international shipping they wouldn't be able to keep that badboy in stock. They just looked at me sideways.. they don't want to deal with international licensing fees when they already "sell" Ninja Warrior to television stations. It's stupid but that's their backwards thinking.
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Eclipse
Satō Jun
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Post by Eclipse on Mar 28, 2018 13:18:25 GMT -5
I'm a simple person, and I never said that it had to be a complete or extended boxset. Even if the old episodes are just the broadcasts with the music stripped, I won't complain. Or even if the boxset is only 28 to 36+, not going to complain either. I mean the first one was 12,000 yen for essentially 1 episode which is very expensive. Not really surprised it didn't sell well...... I say as it sits on the shelf at home. I've actually watched it few times but 30 is one of my absolute favorite tournaments. Oh it wasn't accusatory. I meant in general that despite him saying they will do a DVD the previous test balloon sank into the swamp. They charged too much for a single episode and did a terrible job at marketing it. So many wanted the full set but they won't get it. Unless someone is already a fan of the Rising era it won't make any sense to buy the current stuff. That's why it failed. And I already asked about the old stuff without the music.. he won't reedit it. It's far more complicated and no one had signed releases including talent (like announcers, interview reporters, etc.) so the logistical nightmare of trying to get that 20 years after the fact is not feasible. That's why they did a "history" special in the Sasuke 30 DVD. As for the music.. that's why they went ahead and bought stock music for Sasuke. They WANTED to do a DVD for the Rising era.. but... they screwed it up and it didn't sell well. I still contend that if it was sold as a region free and open to international shipping they wouldn't be able to keep that badboy in stock. They just looked at me sideways.. they don't want to deal with international licensing fees when they already "sell" Ninja Warrior to television stations. It's stupid but that's their backwards thinking. That's my bad arsenette... I actually didn't take it as accusatory at all, I just tend to have a bit of an intense writing style Well, if that's the case and the don't have the legal releases... that's tough. Guess we'll just be getting a compilation disc of all of Yamada's runs (a.k.a Stage 1 fails)
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 28, 2018 13:20:45 GMT -5
Oh it wasn't accusatory. I meant in general that despite him saying they will do a DVD the previous test balloon sank into the swamp. They charged too much for a single episode and did a terrible job at marketing it. So many wanted the full set but they won't get it. Unless someone is already a fan of the Rising era it won't make any sense to buy the current stuff. That's why it failed. And I already asked about the old stuff without the music.. he won't reedit it. It's far more complicated and no one had signed releases including talent (like announcers, interview reporters, etc.) so the logistical nightmare of trying to get that 20 years after the fact is not feasible. That's why they did a "history" special in the Sasuke 30 DVD. As for the music.. that's why they went ahead and bought stock music for Sasuke. They WANTED to do a DVD for the Rising era.. but... they screwed it up and it didn't sell well. I still contend that if it was sold as a region free and open to international shipping they wouldn't be able to keep that badboy in stock. They just looked at me sideways.. they don't want to deal with international licensing fees when they already "sell" Ninja Warrior to television stations. It's stupid but that's their backwards thinking. That's my bad arsenette... I actually didn't take it as accusatory at all, I just tend to have a bit of an intense writing style Well, if that's the case and the don't have the legal releases... that's tough. Guess we'll just be getting a compilation disc of all of Yamada's runs (a.k.a Stage 1 fails) Giggles. That's also why there was always a huge tape trade industry in Japan.. of which Morimoto was personally at the forefront. I still laugh when they show his pirated collection.
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Post by zoran on Mar 28, 2018 14:13:25 GMT -5
Just wanted to make a post in here because I always see people taking ratings at face value, when that isn't exactly the case. The world of TV is changing rapidly and between many factors (increasing # of channels, alternate providers, streaming, lowered interest in traditional TV, etc), the average attainable rating that a television broadcast can get is decaying every year. In the 60s it was possible to get 40, 50, 60% ratings on popular shows, but in the modern world getting up to 20% is essentially unheard of. Due to this, it is not necessarily fair to compare ratings equally. So I went and used some broadcast ratings data and made approximate adjustments. These are not exact figures but should give a clearer image of things: The blue is the raw ratings values for SASUKE. Obviously you can see that they were way higher in the past and have a huge downward trend. The red value is ratings adjusted for viewership deflation as based on some public domain ratings. It is still very clear to see that the first few years saw a sharp spike. You can also clearly see the peaks for Kane's spree up to 8, before plummeting. There was also a short resurgence in Nagano's Final Stage years from 11-13. With that said, modern SASUKE is low, but it isn't exactly tanking. RISING has still been about on par with 15-17 and 19-21, and ratings have been on an approximately stable if not *slightly* upward trend since SASUKE 23. (Although SASUKE 25 tanked hard) Sasuke's ratings are fine. In the RISING era they have mostly been holding steady. I'm not saying SASUKE won't get cancelled, but if it does, it will likely be political / budgetary reasons and not based on ratings. TL;DR do not put so much stock in ratings, as there is a natural downward trend globally in viewership per program. What political reasons could it be?
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Post by wolf4537 on Mar 28, 2018 15:00:28 GMT -5
That's my bad arsenette... I actually didn't take it as accusatory at all, I just tend to have a bit of an intense writing style Well, if that's the case and the don't have the legal releases... that's tough. Guess we'll just be getting a compilation disc of all of Yamada's runs (a.k.a Stage 1 fails) Giggles. That's also why there was always a huge tape trade industry in Japan.. of which Morimoto was personally at the forefront. I still laugh when they show his pirated collection. Aren't VHS tapes still somewhat a thing in Japan? I've always thought of Japan to be the top country when it comes to technology, but I've also noticed in the time that I've spent there that they still rely on A LOT of older technology still. Kinda odd but pretty cool at the same time cause they know how to make it last.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 28, 2018 15:07:26 GMT -5
Giggles. That's also why there was always a huge tape trade industry in Japan.. of which Morimoto was personally at the forefront. I still laugh when they show his pirated collection. Aren't VHS tapes still somewhat a thing in Japan? I've always thought of Japan to be the top country when it comes to technology, but I've also noticed in the time that I've spent there that they still rely on A LOT of older technology still. Kinda odd but pretty cool at the same time cause they know how to make it last. It was. Now copies of those tapes are on disk.. which is what was shown on the broadcast. Still doesn't change the fact that tape trading is how they got it in the first place.
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Eclipse
Satō Jun
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Post by Eclipse on Mar 28, 2018 16:04:59 GMT -5
Aren't VHS tapes still somewhat a thing in Japan? I've always thought of Japan to be the top country when it comes to technology, but I've also noticed in the time that I've spent there that they still rely on A LOT of older technology still. Kinda odd but pretty cool at the same time cause they know how to make it last. It was. Now copies of those tapes are on disk.. which is what was shown on the broadcast. Still doesn't change the fact that tape trading is how they got it in the first place. Copy degradation on VHS is very significant (as little as 10 copies can ruin the master). As soon as digitizing them to DVDs was widely accessible, I'm sure it happened. Knowing Morimoto I'm sure he did this as soon as he could.
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Dazed (Wiin)
Ishikawa Terukazu
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Post by Dazed (Wiin) on Mar 29, 2018 0:07:26 GMT -5
Roughly how high would the ratings need to be for a "good" rating?
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 29, 2018 7:46:27 GMT -5
Roughly how high would the ratings need to be for a "good" rating? Depends honestly. Winning timeslot or at least competing is better to show growth since at this point it is obvious they can't get the ratings to go past 10. They have to demonstrate to advertisers that it is worth putting their ads on Sasuke instead of another show. Right now they aren't doing it that much and advertisers would rather go to a show that will attract more viewers which in turn would buy their product. Similar to how NBC used to be the 5th rated network (behind Fox and Univision), they have to work their way back up. Were contending that since the show is already 20 years old and TBS isn't putting the financial investment in making this grow that it will never reach that. ANW did the opposite and put a lot of money on promotion raising ANW to winning timeslots for a couple of seasons. Even now where they are 2nd and 3rd.. their base is 5-7 million viewers making it attractive to advertisers. Sasuke won't ever hit 7 million (Because of the physical size of Japan) but they need to maintain higher than a 10% to make it worth the advertisers while. So far they only have the base advertisers and that's it. No new money is being injected and that's why Sasuke is not growing. The previous discussion is about what we speculate could happen in the next couple of years given that information.
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Post by SRW on Mar 29, 2018 9:14:27 GMT -5
My hunch is Sasuke will go now until the next kanzenseiha and that will be a wrap just a hunch.
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nekomi3
Kawashima Takayuki
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Post by nekomi3 on Mar 29, 2018 10:49:11 GMT -5
What if a tournament hit the lowest rating ever? Like 3% or something like that. Will Inui ends it?
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Mar 29, 2018 11:08:35 GMT -5
What if a tournament hit the lowest rating ever? Like 3% or something like that. Will Inui ends it? Inui is the director. He doesn't have that power.
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Eclipse
Satō Jun
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Post by Eclipse on Mar 29, 2018 12:36:32 GMT -5
What if a tournament hit the lowest rating ever? Like 3% or something like that. Will Inui ends it? Inui is the director. He doesn't have that power. SASUKE 25 had the lowest rating ever of 7.5%. Based on this, I would say that SASUKE can probably ride manage about 6% based on their most dedicated core group, assuming they don't anger them. If SASUKE hit 3%, this would indicate that they have irreversably destroyed their fanbase and lost tens of thousands of dollars or more due to failing to generate ad revenue. Inui does not have the power to cancel, but TBS would absolutely cancel if it hit 3%.
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