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Post by Oti on Dec 1, 2014 23:18:10 GMT -5
The "what can you do?" was more of a joking rhetorical thing. Just clarifying.
That's the thing, though. Training isn't about just doing what you like to do. Training is about doing what you have to do in order to improve. No sport has elite-level athletes that only practice their sport. Michael Phelps trains outside the pool. Usain Bolt lifts in a gym. Alexander Karelin, one of the best Olympic wrestlers of all time, did almost nothing but strength and conditioning training between matches. Even Muhammad Ali has been quoted as saying he hated every minute of training outside the ring, but he did it because he knew he needed to.
Of course you use obstacles to practice, though. They don't make you stronger. I'm glad you understand that because a lot of people don't. That's not the purpose of a replica, and anybody who tries to use obstacles in order to get stronger is missing the point entirely. It's like giving a baseball player a weighted bat to practice with. It doesn't work. Resistance training makes you stronger, practice hones that strength into specific skills. They're two sides of the same athletic coin.
It's been proven several times on Sasuke that replicas aren't needed to do well. Levi destroyed the course his first try when just six months prior he had never even heard of Sasuke. Nagano always did well despite not using replicas in the beginning and then having limited access to replicas once Bunpei's Shrine was built. There are other competitors as well. I can personally attest to doing better (a LOT better) in ANW after ditching the replicas and actually just focusing on getting stronger. And I was 20 lbs heavier and in awful shape too, haha. But I could squat, deadlift and power clean enough that it didn't matter!
I would be lying because I don't care about them, I don't like them, and I don't use them. That's lying. Read my last post again. I acknowledge the obstacles, but that's it. They have no place in my training now. The irony is that people who exclusively use replicas are far less versatile than someone with good GPP (strength and conditioning) is. When you practice on a replica, you're building one skill. A strong person can apply their strength and conditioning in any situation, including the obstacle that you "trained" so hard on. Somebody who trains only on replicas, even multiple replicas, is never going to have the same levels of strength or conditioning as someone in the gym. And they'll never be as badass as the second guy, either.
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Post by dudesky1000 on Dec 1, 2014 23:32:28 GMT -5
The "what can you do?" was more of a joking rhetorical thing. Just clarifying. That's the thing, though. Training isn't about just doing what you like to do. Training is about doing what you have to do in order to improve. No sport has elite-level athletes that only practice their sport. Michael Phelps trains outside the pool. Usain Bolt lifts in a gym. Alexander Karelin, one of the best Olympic wrestlers of all time, did almost nothing but strength and conditioning training between matches. Even Muhammad Ali has been quoted as saying he hated every minute of training outside the ring, but he did it because he knew he needed to. Of course you use obstacles to practice, though. They don't make you stronger. I'm glad you understand that because a lot of people don't. That's not the purpose of a replica, and anybody who tries to use obstacles in order to get stronger is missing the point entirely. It's like giving a baseball player a weighted bat to practice with. It doesn't work. Resistance training makes you stronger, practice hones that strength into specific skills. They're two sides of the same athletic coin. It's been proven several times on Sasuke that replicas aren't needed to do well. Levi destroyed the course his first try when just six months prior he had never even heard of Sasuke. Nagano always did well despite not using replicas in the beginning and then having limited access to replicas once Bunpei's Shrine was built. There are other competitors as well. I can personally attest to doing better (a LOT better) in ANW after ditching the replicas and actually just focusing on getting stronger. And I was 20 lbs heavier and in awful shape too, haha. But I could squat, deadlift and power clean enough that it didn't matter! I would be lying because I don't care about them, I don't like them, and I don't use them. That's lying. Read my last post again. I acknowledge the obstacles, but that's it. They have no place in my training now. The irony is that people who exclusively use replicas are far less versatile than someone with good GPP (strength and conditioning) is. When you practice on a replica, you're building one skill. A strong person can apply their strength and conditioning in any situation, including the obstacle that you "trained" so hard on. Somebody who trains only on replicas, even multiple replicas, is never going to have the same levels of strength or conditioning as someone in the gym. And they'll never be as badass as the second guy, either.Couldn't have said it any better. |
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Post by Oti on Dec 1, 2014 23:40:48 GMT -5
Well. It originally had more swearing. But I guess that's subjective.
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Post by Badalight on Dec 2, 2014 3:37:06 GMT -5
Obstacle training can make you stronger if you're at a REALLY low level. When I first built my cliff-hanger it was the only thing I used for my fore-arms, and simply by doing it over and over I gained a lot of strength and endurance.
It's certainly not ideal though.
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Post by blah123 on Dec 2, 2014 9:55:35 GMT -5
It's been proven several times on Sasuke that replicas aren't needed to do well. I disagree, assuming by "do well" you mean "have a legitimate shot at Kanzenseiha". This may have been true in the past, but not anymore, and even in ANW either. Show me someone who can pass the CCH that has never been on a cliffhanger, and isn't an elite rock climber. Or someone that can climb rope 1.5 meters per second that has never climbed rope before. In the examples you cite, Levi (or any freerunner other than maybe Brent Steffenson) had no chance at clearing the Shin Cliffhanger, much less the UCH, CCH, or VL if he ever would have attempted them. Nagano, god-like as he may be, has never cleared a post-SCH Stage 3. The days of your average fisherman who lifts weights showing up and gracefully flying over all 4 stages are over. These days, some sort of replica and/or prior course experience is necessary (in addition to strength training you suggest) to have any sort of legitimate shot at Kanzenseiha. Also, this thread got way off topic fyi. |
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Post by Oti on Dec 2, 2014 10:30:59 GMT -5
That's my point, Bada. Going from really weak to weak isn't anything special. Replicas cannot provide the stimulus needed to build a useful/significant level of strength.
Doing well is not completing the course. Doing well is doing well. Nothing on the course requires possession of a special, specific motor pattern to complete it. Nothing is that complicated. It's running, jumping and climbing. Everything requires strength and stamina, though, so to ignore this aspect of training is foolish. Obviously to give yourself the best chance at completing the course, you'd include some replica training to help with the things you're not good at, but this would make up a tiny sliver of your training and is ultimately just not that important in the grand scheme of things. It certainly doesn't warrant being on replicas 90% of the time, as is common in the ANW community.
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Post by AussiePete on Dec 2, 2014 19:26:52 GMT -5
Interesting point about saturation of obstacles and traceurs/freerunners. I wonder what's next. Maybe next year we should challenge all the SMFers to include a certain thing in their videos -- like chocolate icecream or something.
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Post by AussiePete on Dec 2, 2014 19:28:39 GMT -5
... simply by doing it over and over I gained a lot of strength and endurance. It's certainly not ideal though. This plus the signature .GIF is priceless.  |
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Post by Oti on Dec 2, 2014 20:02:04 GMT -5
The trend right now is rock climbing. Maybe gymnastics (rings) will come next, who knows.
I never put Bada's post and signature together, though. That's golden, haha.
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Post by Badalight on Dec 2, 2014 23:25:48 GMT -5
I get the irony - though when I consistently trained on obstacles and when I competed on ANW6 I was at two very different levels of fitness. I had no right to be on that course with how out of shape I was.
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Post by Oti on Dec 2, 2014 23:41:06 GMT -5
I did zero cardio before competing in ANW4. You're not alone, haha.
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Post by Geoffnotjeff on Dec 3, 2014 11:26:54 GMT -5
The "what can you do?" was more of a joking rhetorical thing. Just clarifying. That's the thing, though. Training isn't about just doing what you like to do. Training is about doing what you have to do in order to improve. No sport has elite-level athletes that only practice their sport. Climbing. And still the best training, along with trail running you can do for ANW. |
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Post by Geoffnotjeff on Dec 3, 2014 11:28:12 GMT -5
Oh and im applying as well, of course!
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Post by Oti on Dec 3, 2014 13:23:39 GMT -5
I know of high level climbers that spend time in the weight room. Extra strength helps, and it comes faster in the weight room than from climbing. There's really no reason not to do it.
Climbing is not the best way to train. Combining it with something like trail running makes it a lot better, but it still leaves a lot to be desired.
Which region will you compete in? I'll be in the Dallas region. Let's meet up if you're there.
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Post by LusitaniaAngel313 on Dec 3, 2014 13:50:11 GMT -5
I'll be in the Dallas region. Let's meet up if you're there. Oh sweet so Dallas is spot for a qualifiers course? SWEET I may jump in as a spectator. Just saying I may apply MAYBE next year. Will work on it but idk. |
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Post by dudesky1000 on Dec 3, 2014 15:43:50 GMT -5
I want to know when they'll make NYC the NE region :/
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Post by Oti on Dec 3, 2014 16:04:48 GMT -5
No locations are confirmed yet, but Venice Beach, Dallas and Miami have worked well since ANW4 (Venice Beach being the original location of ANW1-3, of course). I doubt they're going to change. I don't think ANW will ever go to NYC because of the costs and regulations of NYC and the s***ty weather. However, ANW is taking place roughly one month later this season than it has in the past, so maybe the crew is finally learning after the Baltimore and St. Louis clusterfucks that the NE is uninhabitable in early spring.
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Post by RedHerring on Dec 3, 2014 21:27:41 GMT -5
However, ANW is taking place roughly one month later this season than it has in the past, so maybe the crew is finally learning after the Baltimore and St. Louis clusterfucks that the NE is uninhabitable in early spring. Whoa whoa whoa is that confirmed? Did I miss this news? By roughly one month later you mean late April? |
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Post by Oti on Dec 3, 2014 22:23:03 GMT -5
"You must be available to participate in your regional qualifying round, which will take place in March, April and/or May, 2015 (specific locations, dates and times TBD)." From www.anwcasting.com/Pretty sure last time I read it, it actually said April and May. Hell if I know. It's possible though. |
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Post by Geoffnotjeff on Dec 4, 2014 0:01:40 GMT -5
I know of high level climbers that spend time in the weight room. Extra strength helps, and it comes faster in the weight room than from climbing. There's really no reason not to do it. Climbing is not the best way to train. Combining it with something like trail running makes it a lot better, but it still leaves a lot to be desired. Which region will you compete in? I'll be in the Dallas region. Let's meet up if you're there. You said elite level athletes and cited my boy phelps. Im sure high lvl climbers train other ways. Id consider myself a high lvl climber, not elite. To me thats sending v15, v16 regularly. The elite guys just climb. Well except for one, a top Russian world cup climber who does work out other ways. He states he wouldn't if he had local access to better climbing facilities. I know you don't think climbing alone gets it done. But anyone who can climb v13 and above is so physically fit that they can blow past the courses. I know 7 v13 n up guys (and a girl) who all went down last season to a mistake - not because they weren't physically able to do the entire vegas course. And of all the other ninjas ive trained with, ive met about 10 others who have what it takes to finish it all. Maybe. Good luck getting a call. I compete in the easy coast, but say hi to josh cook for me! |
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