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Post by phrozunsun on Sept 9, 2014 12:02:11 GMT -5
I would be very interested in hearing a defense of Rope Jungle. I found it infuriating as a viewer. And I imagine I would have found it equally infuriating if I was one of the elite competitors. To replace what was essentially a throw-away balance/hanging type of obstacle that lasted a couple seconds with a ridiculously hard upper body/grip strength obstacle that took 15-40 seconds to complete is mind boggling and in defensible to me. Don't get it. As an obstacle, I thought it was really interesting. I liked it a lot. In terms of placement, however, they did a really s***ty job. It would have been a better replacement for the butterfly/chain combo (together), or for the hanging doors in stage 3. Also, I'm generally not a fan of throwaway "hanging" obstacles like the curtain slider. At least there's some challenge to the log grip or rolling ones.
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Post by thebobmaster on Sept 9, 2014 14:48:40 GMT -5
Results, for the final time. Stage Two
1. J.J. Woods; Failed Double Salmon Ladder 2. Brian Arnold; Failed Unstable Bridge (!) 3. Yen Chen; Failed Butterfly Wall (great run, nehcney!) 4. Noah Kaufman; Failed Unstable Bridge 5. Dan Galiczynski; Failed Unstable Bridge 6. Ryan Stratis; Failed Metal Spin (great run, straticus!) 7. Andrew Lowes; Failed Metal Spin 8. Isaac Caldiero; Failed Double Salmon Ladder (!) 9. Joseph "Jo Jo" Bynum; Failed Transition to Unstable Bridge 10. Abel Gonzalez; Failed Double Salmon Ladder 11. Travis Rosen; Failed Metal Spin 12. Chris Wilczewski; Failed Metal Spin 13. Josh Cook; Failed Butterfly Wall 14. Ian Dory; Failed Metal Spin 15. Joe Moravsky; Cleared Stage Two, 1.29 seconds left 16. Paul Kasemir; Failed Unstable Bridge (!) 17. Lorin Ball; Failed Double Salmon Ladder 18. Elet Hall; Cleared Stage Two, 13.34 seconds left
Stage Three
1. Elet Hall; Failed Floating Boards 2. Joe Moravsky; Failed Hang Climb And now, a couple of thoughts. Overall, this tournament was a large improvement over last year, although there is much room for improvement. They need to stop changing obstacles for the sake of changing them, and be a fair bit less manipulative in editing. Let us decide who to root for. Don't tell us who to root for.
Also, people had issues on the Metal Spin landing? Gee, it's almost like they should have something wider than, say, a 2 by 4 plank to land on!
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Post by KinnikuBanzukeÜberAlles on Sept 9, 2014 18:29:38 GMT -5
After hearing Matt Iseman describe the Ultimate Cliffhanger ledges as being 2-1/4 in. deep last night, they should just rename it the Watered-Down Cliffhanger. I was wondering what happened to the old Boot Camp obstacles.
ANW still hasn't fixed the Metal Spin chains. They've always been too long, too low, and too close to the jumping off platform. Instead of making the landing more difficult, they should do a slightly more difficult version of the SASUKE 27 Metal Spin for ANW7: shorten the chains, raise them up, and move them further out.
I also didn't like how it looked like they used counterweights on the Wall Lift again last night. The Wall Lift has always been at its best when it slams down, and ANW took that away.
Having 125 seconds for ANW5's Stage 2 was ridiculous last year, but it was appropriate for the ANW6 Stage 2 because of the Rope Jungle. I have a bad feeling that ANW7 will end up like KUNOICHI 8's final result. Because ANW4 was too difficult, they made ANW5 easier. Now I'm expecting them to make ANW7 easier because of what happened this year.
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Post by RobbyMac on Sept 9, 2014 19:11:02 GMT -5
Stage 1 was fine... you can make it better if you get rid of the silk slider.... put something else there.
Stage 2... Rope Jungle. Good idea, just horrible that the obstacle can actually fall apart and drop you in the water. The butterfly wall... liked the concept... Just make the wall a little lower and further away from the rope. Metal spin. If people caught the board like Moravsky did.... they'd be safe. I think both Rosen and Wilczewski could have turned around and grabbed the chain behind them and been safe as well. Does it need to be fixed? I guess.... but I wouldn't mind it if they only fixed the other 2.
Stage 3... Leave it or barely modify it.
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gd38
Chōshū Koriki
Posts: 4
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Post by gd38 on Sept 9, 2014 22:58:10 GMT -5
Rope Jungle is great, except for the falling ropes. At least they're not super fast, but I'm not a fan of the "sudden surprise" that could quickly eliminate you. It should be "here's the obstacle, now defeat it". And while I guess that describes the entire obstacle, I'd be fine with it if it's just sliding or stationary ropes.
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Post by dudesky1000 on Sept 11, 2014 11:06:08 GMT -5
Well, basically, Brian Arnold got what he deserved. And he still only has had one third stage appearance. "I want to win" is all he could say after his run. Sportsman of the year goes to.... not him.
In other news, I was very disappointed with the Metal Spin. It seems like if you got a good, high grab on the chain, like any of the veteran competitors knew from SASUKE, then you were too high to stop yourself on the platform. The obstacle really stunk and took out some competitors we have been dying to see in the Third Stage.
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Post by tbowman on Sept 11, 2014 20:18:50 GMT -5
Well, basically, Brian Arnold got what he deserved. And he still only has had one third stage appearance. "I want to win" is all he could say after his run. Sportsman of the year goes to.... not him. At least get your facts straight. Brian continued by SAYING his decision to go early on Stage 2 was strategic to give him more time to rest for Stage 3. The whole "got what he deserved" stuff is nonsense. Sportsman of the Year? What? He made a sound and strategic decision that he believed would give him the best opportunity to clear all 4 stages. You may disagree with his strategy, but how in the heck does this have anything to do with poor sportsmanship? Brian had no way of knowing such a poorly conceptualized and constructed obstacle like Rope Jungle would be placed at the beginning of Stage 2. Going later hardly helped any of the other competitors on the course considering only 2 passed and it just as easily could have been 0 passing. Arnold was done in by ridiculously poor course design, nothing else. Finally, "and he still only has one third stage appearance". Again, what? How about he has gone farther than any other American in the history of the show? Until someone goes farther than him, he is the best there is.
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Post by dudesky1000 on Sept 11, 2014 20:34:25 GMT -5
Well, basically, Brian Arnold got what he deserved. And he still only has had one third stage appearance. "I want to win" is all he could say after his run. Sportsman of the year goes to.... not him. At least get your facts straight. Brian continued by SAYING his decision to go early on Stage 2 was strategic to give him more time to rest for Stage 3. The whole "got what he deserved" stuff is nonsense. Sportsman of the Year? What? He made a sound and strategic decision that he believed would give him the best opportunity to clear all 4 stages. You may disagree with his strategy, but how in the heck does this have anything to do with poor sportsmanship? Brian had no way of knowing such a poorly conceptualized and constructed obstacle like Rope Jungle would be placed at the beginning of Stage 2. Going later hardly helped any of the other competitors on the course considering only 2 passed and it just as easily could have been 0 passing. Arnold was done in by ridiculously poor course design, nothing else. Finally, "and he still only has one third stage appearance". Again, what? How about he has gone farther than any other American in the history of the show? Until someone goes farther than him, he is the best there is. Woah nelly. I know that was Brian's strategy, but there were multiple ways of going about intentionally being earlier in the start-up, like, taking his time on the last obstacle of stage 1 instead of making a show out of it at the finish line. A good sportsman will not take a challenge like Stage 2 for granted, justifying a stunt like that by assuming he will even make stage 3, which newsflash, he didn't. Do you ever see a tennis player like Federer or Nadal get to the Quarter-Final of a grand slam tournament and say "The real tournament starts now" or that the first four matches were a warm-up? No. Because they are real sportsmen. Because they have respect for the hard work of every individual who trains and plays just so they fulfill their dreams of making it to ONE Quarter-Final, let alone 36 in a row as somebody like Federer has done. And you know what else? Federer has every right to say "Yes, the real tournament starts now" or that he's sure he'll make the second week of a grand slam because he is the best, and he's proven such with over a decade of domination in his sport. ANW is a young 'sport', but one season of making it the furthest is hardly what makes a competitor "the best there is". There are many guys who could have gone farther this season had there not been some silly course design flaws. But Arnold made a mistake in assuming that he would be immune to them. Turns out he wasn't, and Joe Moravsky already has a better resume on the show in his two seasons, no matter what the commentators say. And that's not to say I'm Joe's biggest fan, either. Doesn't that make at least a little sense? Consider a good example of a good sportsman on this show: Travis Rosen. He takes every failure in stride, lets his performance on the course speak for itself, and doesn't feel the need to sacrifice (or at least publicize every sacrifice he makes) in the vein of doing well on this show. Oh, and he keeps his shirt on when he clears.
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Post by dlee on Sept 11, 2014 21:10:59 GMT -5
A good sportsman will not take a challenge like Stage 2 for granted, justifying a stunt like that by assuming he will even make stage 3, which newsflash, he didn't. Ok why would he risk failing by going slower or changing his pace at all while on the obstacles? Thats not logical! Then a good sportsman will NEVER finish the ANW course. (Unless they make is 10000x easier) Not only did he assume that he would past Stage 2 but I bet he assumed he would complete Stage 3 aswell. YOU HAVE TO THINK LIKE THAT!!!! Thats how you become a champion. If you DONT think Roger, Rafar, Lebron, Messi, Kobe, Jon Jones, GSP, Lance Armstrong, MJ, Jay Z or Eminem (it can applied to anything you strive to be elite at) think they are the best YOU ARE WRONG!!!! People like Bryan, Ian, Issac & Geoffnotjeff (Geoff Britten) all actually have the confidence in their skills/training and the mental edge to do the things like let the time run down because they believe it will positively effect their performance. I disagree with you completely. Tennis is a terrible analogy as it would be completely disrespectful to your defeated opponents to say "the tournament begins now". But it is not disrespectful to let the time run down as YOU ARE NOT COMPETING WITH OR AGAINST THE OTHER PEOPLE. It is you vs the course. Dude when you race a marathon do you assume your going to collapse at the halfway mark? or do you say to yourself "Im going all the f***ing way". To suceced you have to think like that! I don't get what your not understanding. If Brian deserved anything it was to get to Stage 4. He is so physically talented & it is truly inspiring to see someone of his age quit his job and chase a dream. Truly Inspirational T Rosen is another terrible example as he has such little chance now of going all the way. If you understand that he did what he did as a strategy then quit harping on sportsmanship man. They are in no way related!!!!
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Post by tbowman on Sept 11, 2014 22:06:02 GMT -5
At least get your facts straight. Brian continued by SAYING his decision to go early on Stage 2 was strategic to give him more time to rest for Stage 3. The whole "got what he deserved" stuff is nonsense. Sportsman of the Year? What? He made a sound and strategic decision that he believed would give him the best opportunity to clear all 4 stages. You may disagree with his strategy, but how in the heck does this have anything to do with poor sportsmanship? Brian had no way of knowing such a poorly conceptualized and constructed obstacle like Rope Jungle would be placed at the beginning of Stage 2. Going later hardly helped any of the other competitors on the course considering only 2 passed and it just as easily could have been 0 passing. Arnold was done in by ridiculously poor course design, nothing else. Finally, "and he still only has one third stage appearance". Again, what? How about he has gone farther than any other American in the history of the show? Until someone goes farther than him, he is the best there is. Woah nelly. I know that was Brian's strategy, but there were multiple ways of going about intentionally being earlier in the start-up, like, taking his time on the last obstacle of stage 1 instead of making a show out of it at the finish line. A good sportsman will not take a challenge like Stage 2 for granted, justifying a stunt like that by assuming he will even make stage 3, which newsflash, he didn't. Do you ever see a tennis player like Federer or Nadal get to the Quarter-Final of a grand slam tournament and say "The real tournament starts now" or that the first four matches were a warm-up? No. Because they are real sportsmen. Because they have respect for the hard work of every individual who trains and plays just so they fulfill their dreams of making it to ONE Quarter-Final, let alone 36 in a row as somebody like Federer has done. And you know what else? Federer has every right to say "Yes, the real tournament starts now" or that he's sure he'll make the second week of a grand slam because he is the best, and he's proven such with over a decade of domination in his sport. ANW is a young 'sport', but one season of making it the furthest is hardly what makes a competitor "the best there is". There are many guys who could have gone farther this season had there not been some silly course design flaws. But Arnold made a mistake in assuming that he would be immune to them. Turns out he wasn't, and Joe Moravsky already has a better resume on the show in his two seasons, no matter what the commentators say. And that's not to say I'm Joe's biggest fan, either. Doesn't that make at least a little sense? Consider a good example of a good sportsman on this show: Travis Rosen. He takes every failure in stride, lets his performance on the course speak for itself, and doesn't feel the need to sacrifice (or at least publicize every sacrifice he makes) in the vein of doing well on this show. Oh, and he keeps his shirt on when he clears. I'm sorry, but there is just no logic to what you are saying. Brian didn't assume anything. He didn't assume he would get to Stage 3. There is no evidence of this. Prior to beginning Vegas he asked himself what strategy would put him in the best position to defeat the entire course. He made a strategic decision that running Stage 2 early would put him in a better position later to defeat Stage 3 & 4. Even if Brian was failed to complete Stage 2 (which he did), it was still sound strategy. He didn't just want to make it to Stage 3. He wanted to defeat it. I love the focus, determination, and all out commitment to succeeding. He basically took a strategy of all or nothing. And he got nothing. I'm sorry, but you are just straight-up, flat out, incorrect in your analysis. In addition, you tennis analogy makes no sense. ANW isn't tennis. It isn't even close to tennis. There are no parallels to draw with tennis. I have seen individuals and teams in multiple sports make strategic decisions to ease up when it was in their best interest. It happens all the time in long distance running or cycling. It even happens in team sports. I've watched professional sports teams go into the tank and sit their best players which may result in them losing games, but in the end result in a tournament seeding that they deem favorable. Again, you don't like the strategy - fine. Your opinion. But the idea he was showboating or that he's not showing sportsmanship is nonsensical. Even the comparison to Travis Rosen doesn't make any sense. Travis is a great guy and has had a level of success in ANW. But he has not demonstrated the ability to achieve Final Victory in ANW. Even if he quit his job and trained full-time his likelihood of success is very small, likely impossible. This is not the case with Brian. He came within one more flying bar jump of completing Stage 3 last year. And had he cleared Stage 3 there is every reason to think he would have cleared Stage 4. Why not go all-in and take a shot at it? Again, strategically I think it was a solid move. Brian is one of maybe 3 guys who truly, legitimately could conquer the course. With such a significant reward (500K) his decision makes a lot of sense. There is no evidence he was making a big deal out of it. NBC makes a promotional package about him and he talks about it. Big deal. Are you seriously suggesting he shouldn't mention it at all? Why? And was he not being a sportsman by basically communicating he was disappointed? What? He went all in and he failed. Who the heck wouldn't be disappointed? He didn't bad mouth the course or get angry about it. I'm sorry, but your positions just aren't defenseable. You are welcome to your opinion, but it doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Post by dudesky1000 on Sept 12, 2014 0:40:30 GMT -5
I had just written a really long response but unfortunately my internet connection went out as I was submitting it. I'm not going to retype the whole thing because it's really not worth my time at this hour but I'll give you the abbreviated version:
-Exploiting rules, throwing matches and outright gamesmanship is not being a good sport. It's called winning ugly. -Blood-thirst for victory is only one side of the coin when it comes to sportsmanship, it's not just about how much you are willing to sacrifice to win, it's also about being a good loser. Arnold held himself to a standard that was clearly way too high and paid the price for it. The ego some of these competitors have is not just unattractive, it's unhealthy. Almost like gambling. -Want a better comparison, how about Yamada? It seems there are many competitors willing to give up their jobs to win. By your logic, is Yamada the ultimate sportsman on SASUKE? -If you think they were going to allow anybody to win last season, you're kidding yourself. The last thing NBC would want is to unveil their fearsome final tower and have it get defeated on its first attempt. -Strategically sound? Didn't assume he would clear the second stage? You're not only being contradictory, but are being quite defensive toward him. If his plan had to do with allowing himself more time between Stage 2 and Stage 3, doesn't that say something about how he feels about his chances on Stage 2? Not to take anything away from the guy, he has had a couple of good results and one exceptional result, but among those who took as much time as he did on the ropes, he didn't look all too impressive. For being 'the best', there sure were a lot of competitors who did better than him. And if he didn't think that NBC was going to revamp the second stage somehow, then he wasn't using his smarts. Part of being a good competitor is using your head. His strategy was anything but sound, and I actually give him a lot of credit for admitting regret for his mistake. -One can only be considered a good sportsman if they have a legitimate chance of winning the entire thing? Which is completely subjective by the way?
-IN SPORT, THERE ARE NO ASSUMPTIONS, PERIOD. All you can assume is that you will try your best. But strangely, I don't hear many competitors say that on this show. I hear a lot of "I should win" or "I'm going to win" or "I want to win". It's not all about winning. It's certainly not about any monetary prize. Anybody who thinks otherwise has either been brainwashed or has sold their soul to NBC's take on one of the few 'sports' that was actually about something far, far different from exceptionalism.
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Post by dlee on Sept 12, 2014 1:18:48 GMT -5
Okay I will let you two finish this but Evan pretty much nothing of what you said can even be taken in the slightest way as being close to anything but subjective. -Winning Ugly? YOUR OPINION! Im a competitor and competitive, I win by any means necessary. (ie Tanking in the NBA or Manipulating draws) ALL SPORTS HAVE THESE FACTORS TO THINK ABOUT! Bryan was the first one to think about that in regards to ANW. Groundbreaking! (SEE that's my opinion) Your mad because he did it and no one in ANW and Sasuke has done it before. IT IS WHAT IT IS. Show some class and respect & just think before you go trashing his performance, dedication and everything the dude works hard at. - Thats your Opinion - Thats your Opinion - Thats your Opinion - WATCH REAL SPORT THEN DUDE!!! NBC run it like a TV show!!!! EVERYONE HAS ESTABLISHED THIS 1 THOUSAND TIMES. They lead people into saying all that BS! No matter how much everyone complains it is not going to change. If you want to see people compete for pride, fun & the spirit of competition then start your own Ninja tournament like everyone has to do.
EDIT: BOTTOM LINE What Brian did you take as being a bad sportsman. Good for you. I take it as some who wants it so bad that they have literally thought about every aspect of it and how they can make it easier on themselves. (Borderline obsession, which is probz unhealthy *cough* YAMADA *cough*) but the argument is invalid as everyone is running individually. If anybody wins it takes nothing away from anyone else as they still failed by themselves.
Yes we are defending Bryan but your going out of your way to hate on him (with no evidence provided)
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Post by tbowman on Sept 12, 2014 1:37:51 GMT -5
I had just written a really long response but unfortunately my internet connection went out as I was submitting it. I'm not going to retype the whole thing because it's really not worth my time at this hour but I'll give you the abbreviated version: -Exploiting rules, throwing matches and outright gamesmanship is not being a good sport. It's called winning ugly. -Blood-thirst for victory is only one side of the coin when it comes to sportsmanship, it's not just about how much you are willing to sacrifice to win, it's also about being a good loser. Arnold held himself to a standard that was clearly way too high and paid the price for it. The ego some of these competitors have is not just unattractive, it's unhealthy. Almost like gambling. -Want a better comparison, how about Yamada? It seems there are many competitors willing to give up their jobs to win. By your logic, is Yamada the ultimate sportsman on SASUKE? -If you think they were going to allow anybody to win last season, you're kidding yourself. The last thing NBC would want is to unveil their fearsome final tower and have it get defeated on its first attempt. -Strategically sound? Didn't assume he would clear the second stage? You're not only being contradictory, but are being quite defensive toward him. If his plan had to do with allowing himself more time between Stage 2 and Stage 3, doesn't that say something about how he feels about his chances on Stage 2? Not to take anything away from the guy, he has had a couple of good results and one exceptional result, but among those who took as much time as he did on the ropes, he didn't look all too impressive. For being 'the best', there sure were a lot of competitors who did better than him. And if he didn't think that NBC was going to revamp the second stage somehow, then he wasn't using his smarts. Part of being a good competitor is using your head. His strategy was anything but sound, and I actually give him a lot of credit for admitting regret for his mistake. -One can only be considered a good sportsman if they have a legitimate chance of winning the entire thing? Which is completely subjective by the way? -IN SPORT, THERE ARE NO ASSUMPTIONS, PERIOD. All you can assume is that you will try your best. But strangely, I don't hear many competitors say that on this show. I hear a lot of "I should win" or "I'm going to win" or "I want to win". It's not all about winning. It's certainly not about any monetary prize. Anybody who thinks otherwise has either been brainwashed or has sold their soul to NBC's take on one of the few 'sports' that was actually about something far, far different from exceptionalism. Again - Criticize his STRATEGY - Fine. In hindisght, now that season 6 is in the books, his strategy failed. Prior to Vegas, I believe there was merit to the strategy. Regardless, you are critiquing STRATEGY. His strategy absolutely, positively has nothing to do with SPORTSMANSHIP. Nothing. The notion you have of sportsmanship is flawed and nonsensical. Your analogies make no sense. Since when does exploiting rules = lack of sportsmanship? Many have accused the Seattle Seahawks of twisting NFL defensive rules into knots throughout last season and into the Super Bowl (which they won). Are they poor sports? Blood-thirst for victory? This pretty much defines Michael Jordan. His will to win is legendary. Is he a poor sport? But let's return for a minute to the STRATEGIC discussion. Brian has ALREADY worked the course the way you would have preferred - last year. And it didn't work. He failed the course. If he genuinely believed executing the exact same plan as the year prior would lead to the same result what is the point? Oh, yes, he should execute the exact same failed plan to satisfy your strange notions of sportsmanship.
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arsenette
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Rambling Rican
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Post by arsenette on Sept 12, 2014 1:40:55 GMT -5
Im a competitor and competitive, I win by any means necessary. (ie Tanking in the NBA or Manipulating draws) ALL SPORTS HAVE THESE FACTORS TO THINK ABOUT! Yes and doing anything you said (in this specific quote) is grounds for lifetime bans in every major Olympic sport if proven... heck it was made famous in baseball and has played out over the years over and over all leading to bans, suspensions and whatnot. I have no idea what Brian did as I didn't see the episode. I do know that in the past I've disliked showboating of any kind (from Usain Bolt to Levi Meeuwenberg and everyone in between). I think what he's trying to say is that in this country anything is permissible simply because "everyone does it" as this Survivor generation has been taught the past 20+ years. Not everyone is like that thankfully. However in this instance quite a few ANW people have fallen into that trap despite it being just a television show. I'll espouse what the Japanese have been saying after their experience in the USA (last year and this). Sasuke is a sport and ANW is a television show. I agree with them.
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Post by tbowman on Sept 12, 2014 1:53:27 GMT -5
Im a competitor and competitive, I win by any means necessary. (ie Tanking in the NBA or Manipulating draws) ALL SPORTS HAVE THESE FACTORS TO THINK ABOUT! Yes and doing anything you said (in this specific quote) is grounds for lifetime bans in every major Olympic sport if proven... heck it was made famous in baseball and has played out over the years over and over all leading to bans, suspensions and whatnot. I have no idea what Brian did as I didn't see the episode. I do know that in the past I've disliked showboating of any kind (from Usain Bolt to Levi Meeuwenberg and everyone in between). I think what he's trying to say is that in this country anything is permissible simply because "everyone does it" as this Survivor generation has been taught the past 20+ years. Not everyone is like that thankfully. However in this instance quite a few ANW people have fallen into that trap despite it being just a television show. I'll espouse what the Japanese have been saying after their experience in the USA (last year and this). Sasuke is a sport and ANW is a television show. I agree with them. The key phrase in all of this for me is, "I have no idea what Brian did as I didn't see the episode". The only thing he did that could even remotely be considered poor sportsmanship is choose to run the timer down before hitting it. This was a STRATEGIC decision. He had a very clear and specific reason for doing this based on his desire to achieve Final Victory and based on his experience in season 5. The idea that this is poor sportsmanship flies in the face of logic.
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Post by tbowman on Sept 12, 2014 1:58:46 GMT -5
Im a competitor and competitive, I win by any means necessary. (ie Tanking in the NBA or Manipulating draws) ALL SPORTS HAVE THESE FACTORS TO THINK ABOUT! Yes and doing anything you said (in this specific quote) is grounds for lifetime bans in every major Olympic sport if proven... heck it was made famous in baseball and has played out over the years over and over all leading to bans, suspensions and whatnot. I have no idea what Brian did as I didn't see the episode. I do know that in the past I've disliked showboating of any kind (from Usain Bolt to Levi Meeuwenberg and everyone in between). I think what he's trying to say is that in this country anything is permissible simply because "everyone does it" as this Survivor generation has been taught the past 20+ years. Not everyone is like that thankfully. However in this instance quite a few ANW people have fallen into that trap despite it being just a television show. I'll espouse what the Japanese have been saying after their experience in the USA (last year and this). Sasuke is a sport and ANW is a television show. I agree with them. We really need to get rid of the team analogies. ANW is not a team sport. It is an individual sport. More specifically, it is an individual endurance sport due to the multiple stages. A common strategy in any individual endurance sport (swimming, running, cycling, speed skating, cross country skiing, and the list could go on and on and on) is to conserve energy early and make a charge late. You see it all the time. Brian made a strategic decision to run Stage 2 early to conserve energy late for Stages 3 & 4. He made this decision after failing on the course the year prior. That's it. That's all this is. The poor sportsmanship claim was, is, and will continue to be nonsensical.
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arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
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Post by arsenette on Sept 12, 2014 2:18:49 GMT -5
Ah I see what happened. We can categorize that in the same category as someone going under the walls instead of lifting them on Sasuke. I see your point. I don't like it personally (on either account) and many frown on it even if it's "legal". However, I see the point with the sportsmanship argument even if it's a little on the loose end. I remember (again using the same analogy) Usain Bolt gloryhounding and slowing down in the Olympics because he knew he won and wanted to rub it in. This seems at least from the description pretty much the same way with the added benefit of controlling his draw. Having not had that in Sasuke I can see why it would irk people (I know I would) especially knowing that the rule existed. While perfectly legal I can see why so many people are so passionate about it. It shouldn't be in ANW but it is and because it was it was used many were exasperated by the deliberate use of it. We don't have to like it.
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Post by dudesky1000 on Sept 12, 2014 9:12:54 GMT -5
Brian has already worked the course the way I preferred? Last year?
Please tell me, if Brian has such a will to win (which I think he does), then why isn't it conceivable that he could have improved in upper body endurance between the two seasons, with all of his added training time? This is the one question nobody has answered for me. He was two steps away from winning the whole thing when he ran the course that way--why change something that was working? Surely with more practice on the Flying Bar, and another year of climbing, wouldn't he have been able to go at least one step further and make it to the Final? The answer is clearly yes. And I'm sure he thought so.
From what I remember, and from Arnold's comments on his strategy, he has said nothing regarding a strategy to take more rest between Stages 2 and 3, by the way. This appears to be something Matt Iseman and SMF conjured when I first criticized him for it. All he ever said was that he didn't want to stand around because it would make him nervous to watch the others go before him, and he didn't want to get 'cold' (as in his muscles). On his youtube account, he said that he wanted to just get the stage out of the way so he could enjoy watching everyone else. THAT, is very different. That's something I can appreciate.
At the end of the day, the fact of the matter is is that I personally did not feel sorry for him after failing Stage 2 because of what he did in Stage 1. The keyword here is I. I actually found myself rooting against him. And I don't think I'm alone, either. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be his fan. By all means, we can root for anyone we want. I just personally like to watch competitors who don't play into NBC's game of television sensationalism. Brian Arnold is, one of many now, who feel as though they must by advertising their personal sacrifices and doing 'whatever it takes' according to those who think he had a strategy to win. I liked the guy a lot last season. And I am sure he is a great guy. But I think the success has changed him a little, or at least, he's allowed NBC to portray him a certain way by feeding them what they want to drum up their drama.
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Post by tbowman on Sept 12, 2014 9:36:04 GMT -5
Ah I see what happened. We can categorize that in the same category as someone going under the walls instead of lifting them on Sasuke. I see your point. I don't like it personally (on either account) and many frown on it even if it's "legal". However, I see the point with the sportsmanship argument even if it's a little on the loose end. I remember (again using the same analogy) Usain Bolt gloryhounding and slowing down in the Olympics because he knew he won and wanted to rub it in. This seems at least from the description pretty much the same way with the added benefit of controlling his draw. Having not had that in Sasuke I can see why it would irk people (I know I would) especially knowing that the rule existed. While perfectly legal I can see why so many people are so passionate about it. It shouldn't be in ANW but it is and because it was it was used many were exasperated by the deliberate use of it. We don't have to like it. Brian absolutely was not glory-hounding or show-boating. Now if he had successful climbed the rope in Stage 4, was standing at the top next to the buzzer with time to spare, and purposefully allowed it run down to 1 second before pressing it, that would be show-boating. It would also be stupid. But not in Stage 1 when there may be strategic value to running Stage 2 earlier. I can't really grasp the idea that there is only one right way to run the course. If something is within the rules then that is a valid way to run. If someone can slide under the walls instead of lifting them and it saves them time and it's not against the rules, good for them. Expanding on the sprinting analogy, though, EVERY sprinter slows up to conserve energy during qualifying rounds. The goal is to go out hard and once it is clear they will finish in the top 3, they slow up to save themselves for the final. This is done in so many individual sports.
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Post by tbowman on Sept 12, 2014 9:41:22 GMT -5
Brian has already worked the course the way I preferred? Last year? Please tell me, if Brian has such a will to win (which I think he does), then why isn't it conceivable that he could have improved in upper body endurance between the two seasons, with all of his added training time? This is the one question nobody has answered for me. He was two steps away from winning the whole thing when he ran the course that way--why change something that was working? Surely with more practice on the Flying Bar, and another year of climbing, wouldn't he have been able to go at least one step further and make it to the Final? The answer is clearly yes. And I'm sure he thought so. From what I remember, and from Arnold's comments on his strategy, he has said nothing regarding a strategy to take more rest between Stages 2 and 3, by the way. This appears to be something Matt Iseman and SMF conjured when I first criticized him for it. All he ever said was that he didn't want to stand around because it would make him nervous to watch the others go before him, and he didn't want to get 'cold' (as in his muscles). On his youtube account, he said that he wanted to just get the stage out of the way so he could enjoy watching everyone else. THAT, is very different. That's something I can appreciate. At the end of the day, the fact of the matter is is that I personally did not feel sorry for him after failing Stage 2 because of what he did in Stage 1. The keyword here is I. I actually found myself rooting against him. And I don't think I'm alone, either. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be his fan. By all means, we can root for anyone we want. I just personally like to watch competitors who don't play into NBC's game of television sensationalism. Brian Arnold is, one of many now, who feel as though they must by advertising their personal sacrifices and doing 'whatever it takes' according to those who think he had a strategy to win. I liked the guy a lot last season. And I am sure he is a great guy. But I think the success has changed him a little, or at least, he's allowed NBC to portray him a certain way by feeding them what they want to drum up their drama. Sigh - Seeing something that doesn't exist doesn't make it real. There was no show-boating, ego, or anything else involved with his decision. And he certainly can't control how NBC chooses to portray him. Your points on how his strategy may have been flawed are valid. Everything else is not.
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