arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Aug 26, 2009 6:27:49 GMT -5
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Post by supernovamaniac on Aug 26, 2009 9:55:01 GMT -5
The 'response' date was within 20 days of the denial date, which was August 12th. Surely, something will pop-up in the news soon.
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Post by TCM on Aug 26, 2009 13:14:18 GMT -5
Well if anyone is specifically at fault its Google for letting ABC by the search terms. I don't see how ABC possibly made people think the shows were licensed by Japan, that's likely false assumption based on buying the terms. Only thing I can see TBS getting a settlement for the terms, but saying its copyright and gimmick infringement they'll get bupkus for, as you can't copyright a wacky obstacle course, only your version of it, now if it was like Takeshi's Castle/MXC with it's main concept (Takeshi is survive challenges to potentially get to him and take over the castle and win money/MXC is survive and get points for your "team") I would understand. Wipeout is survive to next round (which doesn't all reality competitions have this aspect?) and long enough in the final round to win money. Hope this doesn't alienate TBS dealing with America, though G4 and ABC are totally different networks in more ways than one.
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Post by Oti on Aug 26, 2009 20:22:00 GMT -5
Google can't possibly be expected to monitor every site's tags to make sure they're not infringing.
I bet this place uses "Sasuke" and "Ninja Warrior", even though no one here owns the rights to those names.
I think ABC is at fault for so obviously trying to cheat, although at the same time, maybe it's not like that. Maybe it was an honest mistake and they really just thought MXC and Wipeout were that similar.
Dunno.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Aug 26, 2009 20:52:37 GMT -5
Actually if they paid money that's a willful act though. This isn't a random thing. It requires contacting Google directly to get advertisement exclusivity. Granted Google has been doing that for years and many MANY companies have complained about it.. maybe it takes a case like that to make a landmark case to control those habits. Who knows.
I'm more interested though on the other side of the case where there is an actual document specifically stating that they want a copy of MXC and that's how WipeOut started. That's the specific case againts Emdemol or whatever that company is. There are 2 cases going on simultaneoulsy - each with their own take on the same story. They got ripped off plain and simple. Now to see if they can get something out of it.
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Post by Oti on Aug 26, 2009 21:39:24 GMT -5
All the websites I run are free and I've submitted them all to search engines... for free. I'll wait for all the facts to come out before I make a conclusion. This post said something else, but apparently somebody thought it was offensive...  |
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Post by obakemono on Aug 26, 2009 21:45:39 GMT -5
It's not about simple website tags infringing on copyrights, it's about buying adspace on Google for copyrighted TBS-related searches. I'm not sure how this would be illegal, just seems like run of the mill creative advertising to me. Also seems like they're clutching at straws to fuel a ridiculous lawsuit.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Aug 26, 2009 22:57:09 GMT -5
It's not about simple website tags infringing on copyrights, it's about buying adspace on Google for copyrighted TBS-related searches. I'm not sure how this would be illegal, just seems like run of the mill creative advertising to me. Also seems like they're clutching at straws to fuel a ridiculous lawsuit. Actually it's a lot of money though. A few companies have complained about the practices.. just only a matter of time before this practice will be stopped. It's different to "tag" something.. and completely something else to invest millions for those 3 searches to skew it. Unless they want to actually tackle that problem though I doubt much will become of it. As for the seperate issue of copyright infringement they have a case. This is one of the first times they deliberately copy a company's concept (specifically MXC) without paying some licensing fees to the originating company. This is actually a first. |
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Post by obakemono on Aug 26, 2009 23:50:58 GMT -5
As for the seperate issue of copyright infringement they have a case. This is one of the first times they deliberately copy a company's concept (specifically MXC) without paying some licensing fees to the originating company. This is actually a first. I think pretty much all reality TV originates that way, and that's only one example. I don't believe copyright law allows you to copyright something as broad as 'wacky obstacle course gameshow' and if it does, it's even more of an abomination than I thought it was. Also I don't see how this is losing TBS any money. |
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Aug 27, 2009 0:06:20 GMT -5
Also I don't see how this is losing TBS any money. Actually they already are. Wipeout is being touted in the Asian markets going up against all of the other obstacle course shows TBS is involved with so it would be direct competition. The big issue here is that it's not "obstacle course show" that they are contesting.. that's too broad. It's a direct MXC rip including the voice acting and set up of the show. The fact that they have documents proving that they were specifically aiming to rip off MXC (some dimwit in a corporate office memo no doubt) is going to be interesting to see if that is the clincher in this case. The Google advertising involving Sasuke, Kunoichi and Takeshi's Castle is it's own lawsuit. |
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Post by obakemono on Aug 27, 2009 0:17:26 GMT -5
The big issue here is that it's not "obstacle course show" that they are contesting.. that's too broad. It's a direct MXC rip including the voice acting and set up of the show. The fact that they have documents proving that they were specifically aiming to rip off MXC (some dimwit in a corporate office memo no doubt) is going to be interesting to see if that is the clincher in this case. So if it's a rip off of the MXC format and not the Takeshi's Castle one, do TBS still have rights over that? That would mean they also have the rights over G4's Ninja Warrior format. Shouldn't it be whoever shows MXC in America that's suing? They still don't have my moral support, although the motives make a bit more sense now. |
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Aug 27, 2009 0:30:30 GMT -5
The big issue here is that it's not "obstacle course show" that they are contesting.. that's too broad. It's a direct MXC rip including the voice acting and set up of the show. The fact that they have documents proving that they were specifically aiming to rip off MXC (some dimwit in a corporate office memo no doubt) is going to be interesting to see if that is the clincher in this case. So if it's a rip off of the MXC format and not the Takeshi's Castle one, do TBS still have rights over that? That would mean they also have the rights over G4's Ninja Warrior format. Shouldn't it be whoever shows MXC in America that's suing? They still don't have my moral support, although the motives make a bit more sense now. Yes TBS owns (technically co-owns with M9) MXC and Ninja Warrior. Remember G4 and Spike had to pay a licensing fee to be allowed to reformat the show to their liking. The money Spike and G4 make are from advertising sales but the actual footage is owned by TBS since they are the originators of the series. Conversely .. ANW is strictly a G4/Pilgrims production (an offshoot of Sasuke) but M9 is the one that gets money from the licensing of that show (I don't believe TBS does since they are not using TBS footage.. to my knowledge). The physical footage of the show if there is any in ANW.. that belongs to TBS/M9. It's all about Royalties here. They have my undying support since it was a willful act to specifically copy MXC without paying licensing rights. This would have never happened if ABC bothered to at least contact M9 with a deal to make a copy of MXC.. but they chose to bully their way through. Again. This is unprecedented. |
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Post by Captain Obvious on Aug 27, 2009 14:48:21 GMT -5
Unprecendented? Perhaps not.
I can't find an article (yet) to confirm this, but I believe there's an ongoing issue with the company that produces "Shark Tank" in Japan and the company that produces "The Dragon's Den" in Great Britain. If anything, that's more of a direct copy than Wipeout of Takeshi's Castle.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Aug 27, 2009 20:28:28 GMT -5
Unprecendented? Perhaps not. I can't find an article (yet) to confirm this, but I believe there's an ongoing issue with the company that produces "Shark Tank" in Japan and the company that produces "The Dragon's Den" in Great Britain. If anything, that's more of a direct copy than Wipeout of Takeshi's Castle. In USA I mean.  I don't know what else goes on in other countries when it comes to this. |
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Post by Ninja Chris on Aug 31, 2009 14:44:17 GMT -5
Nonetheless, wouldn't what Spike did with MXC, and G4 with Ninja Warrior, be exactly the same like the many versions of Dancing with the Stars, The Guiness Book of World Records show and American Gladiators (The original), therefore be the same as all the different versions of Shark Tank?
Therefore, those being legal, licensed versions, this could be authentic even overseas (Just not sure as there are so many different countries).
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Post by 2D2Will on Aug 31, 2009 22:43:24 GMT -5
Actually, this isn't unpecendedted. If I remember correctly, many years ago, CBS sued ABC for creating "I'm A Celebrity...Get Me Out Of Here!" which was a blatant Survivor ripoff. Long story short, ABC won.
Personally, I'm hoping ABC wins this one as well. With any luck, this will teach Japanese producers a lesson about not being afraid to allow their IP's to be used in other countries. (For more about this, read JapanAmericia) There was a huge demand for obstacle course shows around the world, and TBS never capitalized on it. Now that ABC is doing what TBS should have done, TBS will hopefully realize the errors of their ways.
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Post by penguincatfish on Aug 31, 2009 23:18:20 GMT -5
Yeah there seems to be a huge potential goldmine for obstacle course shows in the US.
I was watching The Tonight Show with Conan (actually I'm watching it right now) and after the first half hour they cut to commercials and I saw a MayTag commercial where they had kids running some sort of food-themed obstacle course in white jump suits to get 'em dirty. It started off with something like the Sextuple Steps and there was a zipline and platforms and all these things.
It just shows the appeal of these things. I couldn't find it on Youtube or anywhere probably because it's so new, but maybe those in Mountain and Pacific timezones could look out for it later tonight.
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arsenette
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Post by arsenette on Aug 31, 2009 23:23:42 GMT -5
Obstacle courses are not new though.. They've been aroudn for ages.. heck I grew up in the 1970's .. before any of you were born.. you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting some sort of obstacle course show on TV..
This isn't about "zomg you can't do any obstacle course".. it's specifically about MXC being ripped off with a willful thought. There is evidence to show they went out specifically to do it EXACTLY like MXC.. not expand on the idea.. I find that to be completely different than "zomg it's an obstacle course show".. if that's the case.. Nickelodeon would go down.. they had quite a few friggin' awesome obstacle course shows that rocked during the 1990's.
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2D2Will
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Post by 2D2Will on Sept 1, 2009 0:03:11 GMT -5
Yea, but when MXC was out, the demand was high, but the closest thing we had to an obstacle course show was certain reality competition shows that occasionally had obstacle courses as challenges. And when MXC ended, there was just those reality shows as game shows were on the decline as well.
There was a lack of obstacle courses and when Ninja Warrior premiered, America wanted more Japanese Game Show style shows. Sometimes it worked (Wipeout). And sometimes it failed horribly (Hole in the Wall).
TBS is going to have a hard time winning this one, since "I'm A Celebrity...Get Me Out Of Here!" was intended to be a blatant Survivor ripoff, and ABC still won that suit.
Fun fact: One of the biggest modern reasons Japanese producers are afraid to allow their IPs to be used overseas is because of 4kids.
Let's just say Nintendo and OLM, Inc didn't exactly get a fair share of the profit earned from the show's success in America.
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Post by arsenette on Sept 1, 2009 0:06:11 GMT -5
Fair enough Let's see what happens from this point. Lord knows I've seen just about everything when it comes to lawsuits. |
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I don't know what else goes on in other countries when it comes to this.
