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Post by YourResidentKojiFan on Nov 23, 2023 7:48:21 GMT -5
Yeah, pretty much exactly what dakohosu said. I've got a lot of time on my hands and I check this forum like 5 times a day, so I can be a very active mod if that's the problem. I'll gladly step forward and volunteer.
For me, there is nothing else except SASUKE (Maniac).
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Post by sasukewarrior333 on Nov 23, 2023 7:50:31 GMT -5
I will also extend forth my name to help take care of the place. I will admit that I am busy as a student doing Uni, which may preoccupy me at points, but in spite of this I will do my best to take care of this place and give it the love it deserves.
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Post by thegreatluigi on Nov 23, 2023 14:50:53 GMT -5
Same here. As I said before, I'd be more than happy to help out. I may be a very infrequent poster, but I'm a very regular reader.
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Eclipse
Satō Jun
Retired Staff
Posts: 737
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Post by Eclipse on Nov 24, 2023 0:00:49 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I apologize for the delay in posting this reply, I had some things I had to deal with offline that prevented me from updating everyone sooner. This message is as an update to the announcement posted here about 6 weeks ago regarding the closure of SMF. At the time that the shutdown was announced, the staff had felt they had made an informed decision about SMF, based on a number of factors (not just moderation). Since the announcement, I have been trying to keep a close eye on the feedback given, whether that be in this thread, via platforms, etc. Out of all of the responses received, I really appreciated the perspectives brought to the table. For example, the staff had felt that maintaining a smaller platform when larger, more active ones existed was redundant, but users like sasukewarrior333 and @loboticaltree brought forward really valuable input on things like the level of comfortability in smaller spaces and how the slower “inactive” pace is much easier to manage than other, more overwhelming platforms. Others brought up points regarding general accessibility on how it can be hard to manage important news via discord since things get buried so quickly, the discoverability problems where other platforms aren't indexed on google, and general usability in terms of finding relevant content and searching. I really liked Ninja Relaxer ’s assessment of “One is a chat room, while the other facilitates long-forum discussion. They are not the same.”. It's obvious to me now that the staff failed to see and consider these perspectives and also failed to talk to enough people about the decision beforehand. As a result, it’s clear to me that our assessment of SMF’s current situation was not correct and there was a lot of value here that we missed and underappreciated. I will be canceling the closure, and have already been doing some things behinds the scenes to aid this. SMF will not be closing.As far as the other staff, I’ve kept them looped in regarding the feedback, however, all others remain inactive or have formally asked to step away, so I will be the only one coordinating this now. I will be onboarding a new team of staff to fill in the gaps and replace the current team. For all of those who have expressed interest in this thread, I will reach out to you shortly. For anyone else interested, please DM me.I am also in progress of reviewing the site to make some overdue clean-up. For example, the Rules, Spoiler Policy, etc haven’t been updated in about a decade and will be in review (will discuss with the new staff as well). These changes should hopefully reduce the amount of moderation needed to make the site more straightforward to run. Moderation was not the only item behind the scenes contributing to this decision. One other point of concern was that Proboards as a platform has several issues, including some aspects like security. In previous efforts to deal with these, it seems as though there was no way to get around the limitations which posed a problem from bringing in additional staff. Over the last few weeks I have been working with ProBoards and ProBoards support to look into if further, and thankfully it seems as though we are going to be able to alleviate all of the concerns that we had. Most importantly:I do want to extend an apology to everyone here - all of whom almost certainly felt blindsided by the previous announcement. The staff should have discussed the process more openly with the community and reached out previously and taken the time to explore more viewpoints in the decision-making process. I can also understand the unnecessary stress that the announcement caused, thinking that a place you care deeply about was going away. I understand that we were the direct cause of that and I am willing to accept all of the blame for that. Please feel free to reach out to me via DM with any questions, comments, criticism, etc. regarding SMF.
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Post by sasukewarrior333 on Nov 24, 2023 0:27:45 GMT -5
Hi everyone, I apologize for the delay in posting this reply, I had some things I had to deal with offline that prevented me from updating everyone sooner. This message is as an update to the announcement posted here about 6 weeks ago regarding the closure of SMF. At the time that the shutdown was announced, the staff had felt they had made an informed decision about SMF, based on a number of factors (not just moderation). Since the announcement, I have been trying to keep a close eye on the feedback given, whether that be in this thread, via platforms, etc. Out of all of the responses received, I really appreciated the perspectives brought to the table. For example, the staff had felt that maintaining a smaller platform when larger, more active ones existed was redundant, but users like sasukewarrior333 and @loboticaltree brought forward really valuable input on things like the level of comfortability in smaller spaces and how the slower “inactive” pace is much easier to manage than other, more overwhelming platforms. Others brought up points regarding general accessibility on how it can be hard to manage important news via discord since things get buried so quickly, the discoverability problems where other platforms aren't indexed on google, and general usability in terms of finding relevant content and searching. I really liked Ninja Relaxer ’s assessment of “One is a chat room, while the other facilitates long-forum discussion. They are not the same.”. It's obvious to me now that the staff failed to see and consider these perspectives and also failed to talk to enough people about the decision beforehand. As a result, it’s clear to me that our assessment of SMF’s current situation was not correct and there was a lot of value here that we missed and underappreciated. I will be canceling the closure, and have already been doing some things behinds the scenes to aid this. SMF will not be closing.As far as the other staff, I’ve kept them looped in regarding the feedback, however, all others remain inactive or have formally asked to step away, so I will be the only one coordinating this now. I will be onboarding a new team of staff to fill in the gaps and replace the current team. For all of those who have expressed interest in this thread, I will reach out to you shortly. For anyone else interested, please DM me.I am also in progress of reviewing the site to make some overdue clean-up. For example, the Rules, Spoiler Policy, etc haven’t been updated in about a decade and will be in review (will discuss with the new staff as well). These changes should hopefully reduce the amount of moderation needed to make the site more straightforward to run. Moderation was not the only item behind the scenes contributing to this decision. One other point of concern was that Proboards as a platform has several issues, including some aspects like security. In previous efforts to deal with these, it seems as though there was no way to get around the limitations which posed a problem from bringing in additional staff. Over the last few weeks I have been working with ProBoards and ProBoards support to look into if further, and thankfully it seems as though we are going to be able to alleviate all of the concerns that we had. Most importantly:I do want to extend an apology to everyone here - all of whom almost certainly felt blindsided by the previous announcement. The staff should have discussed the process more openly with the community and reached out previously and taken the time to explore more viewpoints in the decision-making process. I can also understand the unnecessary stress that the announcement caused, thinking that a place you care deeply about was going away. I understand that we were the direct cause of that and I am willing to accept all of the blame for that. Please feel free to reach out to me via DM with any questions, comments, criticism, etc. regarding SMF. Thank you very, very much Eclipse! I think I can speak for all of us when I say this is massively appreciated. I also appreciate the mention, as I put a lot of thought into outlining my feelings as to why I wanted the forum to stay open. Thank you for listening to our concerns, and I really appreciate you listening to the voices in the community! The apology is accepted and appreciated too, that's very mature and there's no hard feelings on my end at least.
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Post by YourResidentKojiFan on Nov 24, 2023 1:18:11 GMT -5
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arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
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Post by arsenette on Nov 24, 2023 3:10:47 GMT -5
This debacle was unprecedented. It should have never happened at all. I’m on board with replacing those who want to go but that includes you Eclipse. I won’t stand for anything else.
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brz0ny
Jessie Graff
We need Ryo Fail Guessing Game for Sasuke 42
Posts: 1,008
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Post by brz0ny on Nov 24, 2023 5:45:32 GMT -5
This debacle was unprecedented. It should have never happened at all. I’m on board with replacing those who want to go but that includes you Eclipse. I won’t stand for anything else. I don't think that was necessary.
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arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
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Post by arsenette on Nov 24, 2023 7:37:25 GMT -5
This debacle was unprecedented. It should have never happened at all. I’m on board with replacing those who want to go but that includes you Eclipse. I won’t stand for anything else. I don't think that was necessary. I do considering everything that was said in private this past month. This is just my public statement on the matter.
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Post by dakohosu on Nov 24, 2023 8:16:12 GMT -5
This debacle was unprecedented. It should have never happened at all. I’m on board with replacing those who want to go but that includes you Eclipse. I won’t stand for anything else. Your opinion is your opinion but I don't think that's a fair stance to take. Eclipse outright mentioned the reasons why the current mods were considering the decisions they made, which I appreciate and respect from the perspective of transparency (as initially it seemingly came out of nowhere), and have agreed to reverse those decisions due to the rationales expressed by several other users on this forum. They at least explained why they were doing what they were doing, admitted to having misjudged how valuable and unique SMF is to some of us, and have kindly agreed to keep the forum running combined with going the extra mile to address other concerns relating to security etc. so make sure the forum can continue to operate safely which is in all of our best interests. I for one hold no ill thoughts towards the current mods of SMF. It's not really fair on them, and either way there's no point as it's just adding fuel to a fire that's already been put out at this point. I am personally cool with the mods staying, and working with them to consolidate a bright future for the forum and everyone involved, if I do get the chance to become one myself. With all due respect, being a mod requires you to be fair to everyone on the forum, and I personally don't believe offering to become one but taking a "me or them" approach over an honest misjudgment as a first step is particularly confidence inspiring to the rest of the members here. You don't want other members to be intimidated by you, otherwise it doesn't allow for free discussion which is the entire point of a discussion forum.
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Post by hoseasasuke on Nov 24, 2023 9:06:06 GMT -5
This debacle was unprecedented. It should have never happened at all. I’m on board with replacing those who want to go but that includes you Eclipse. I won’t stand for anything else. Asking for the removal of someone who's not a dictator is not really that fair, no?
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Post by YourResidentKojiFan on Nov 24, 2023 10:31:48 GMT -5
This debacle was unprecedented. It should have never happened at all. I’m on board with replacing those who want to go but that includes you Eclipse. I won’t stand for anything else. Yeah, I can't speak for anyone else but when I put myself forward to be a potential mod candidate, I was not thinking that I'd replace Eclipse/any other current mod
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Post by sasukewarrior333 on Nov 24, 2023 11:05:36 GMT -5
This debacle was unprecedented. It should have never happened at all. I’m on board with replacing those who want to go but that includes you Eclipse. I won’t stand for anything else. I'm admittedly very confused on this statement. I do agree the choice to shut down the forums in the first place was too swift, but like, full accountability has been taken here, and I genuinely feel Eclipse has done an excellent job at addressing our concerns. She clearly acted in good faith throughout from what I've seen.
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arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
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Post by arsenette on Nov 24, 2023 13:20:59 GMT -5
Eclipse does not own SMF.
We don’t need permission to function as a discussion board without her “guidance”. Plenty of mods have left without fanfare. This place has has several over the past 15 years. Why is she asking anyone for opinions on how she is going to run the place when she’s leaving anyway? She originally decided this because she doesn’t think anyone here deserves the “powers” of mods on proboards because of an incident that happened with doxing somewhere else unrelated to us. So instead of finding someone the mods can trust, they tried to force everyone off. They don’t trust or respect any of you.
None of you have worthy dialogue of any meaning and thus only perpetuate meaningless low quality drivel. THAT is her opinion of all of you. There is no transparency. If I posted even half of what I was told in private you’d see the person who is trying to sweet talk you in public.
I don’t care if she wants to stay as member but she has no business being a mod. She does not work in good faith and has no respect for any of you.
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brz0ny
Jessie Graff
We need Ryo Fail Guessing Game for Sasuke 42
Posts: 1,008
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Post by brz0ny on Nov 24, 2023 13:51:17 GMT -5
Eclipse does not own SMF. We don’t need permission to function as a discussion board without her “guidance”. Plenty of mods have left without fanfare. This place has has several over the past 15 years. Why is she asking anyone for opinions on how she is going to run the place when she’s leaving anyway? She originally decided this because she doesn’t think anyone here deserves the “powers” of mods on proboards because of an incident that happened with doxing somewhere else unrelated to us. So instead of finding someone the mods can trust, they tried to force everyone off. They don’t trust or respect any of you. None of you have worthy dialogue of any meaning and thus only perpetuate meaningless low quality drivel. THAT is her opinion of all of you. There is no transparency. If I posted even half of what I was told in private you’d see the person who is trying to sweet talk you in public. I don’t care if she wants to stay as member but she has no business being a mod. She does not work in good faith and has no respect for any of you. Who owns it then? Who could say yes or no to who gets to be a mod or not? I dont think I am the only one here who has no idea how this functions.
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Post by dakohosu on Nov 24, 2023 13:52:14 GMT -5
Eclipse does not own SMF. We don’t need permission to function as a discussion board without her “guidance”. Plenty of mods have left without fanfare. This place has has several over the past 15 years. Why is she asking anyone for opinions on how she is going to run the place when she’s leaving anyway? She originally decided this because she doesn’t think anyone here deserves the “powers” of mods on proboards because of an incident that happened with doxing somewhere else unrelated to us. So instead of finding someone the mods can trust, they tried to force everyone off. They don’t trust or respect any of you. None of you have worthy dialogue of any meaning and thus only perpetuate meaningless low quality drivel. THAT is her opinion of all of you. There is no transparency. If I posted even half of what I was told in private you’d see the person who is trying to sweet talk you in public. I don’t care if she wants to stay as member but she has no business being a mod. She does not work in good faith and has no respect for any of you. I'm not going to unnecessarily escalate this into an argument that doesn't need to be had, but I personally do not care what has gone on behind the scenes, any personal issues between more intricate members of the community, etc. etc. The fact of the matter is SMF is staying and new mods are to be chosen. That's really the end of the story. Whatever external drama has ensued leading up to that decision, the end result was still favorable. The focus should be on ensuring the success of SMF for the future to come, not harping on past issues or getting people to take sides and so forth. I've been following the community for years and am fully aware of the sentiment directed towards SMF for a while, but I have enough good in my personal life to not really care about what someone online thinks of me, my posts/comments, my presence in the community, etc. If I did, I wouldn't be as blunt as I am. All I care about is ensuring SMF stays and past issues the forum have experienced do not happen again, or get resolved asap, to avoid further decline in interest. That's it.
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arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
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Post by arsenette on Nov 24, 2023 14:10:19 GMT -5
In the past the mods rotated in and out with a recommendation from the community. This place is owned by blt but it was administered by members of the community who were there to keep topics in respective areas and sweep the place for bots. That’s it.
This is different. A unilateral decision was made by Eclipse because she felt the community had no worth and the members didn’t deserve her powers. So instead of going the route the other mods did (bowing out), she decided to burn the thing down because she doesn’t respect any of you. As it is now she mentions only now she realizes that others care about this place. That is not a mod, that is a dictator. Now you want that person that does not respect you decide if you are worthy of being a mod in a place she finds no value.
That decision is not Eclipse’s decision to make. There is no good will. Since when do you need permission from anyone to express your opinion on a television show on a public forum?
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azn
Ishikawa Terukazu
"There's a time and place for everything... BUT NOT NOW!!!" - Prof. Oak
Posts: 455
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Post by azn on Nov 24, 2023 14:24:19 GMT -5
This whole saga was a mess, but at least the outcome was right.
SMF is still alive, The Ninja Masters Discord got some exposure (albeit, that of the mixed variety) and we'll be getting new mods.
Considering how one of the biggest reasons behind the initial deletion plans was because of a "Dramatic decline in user activity" this entire Saga proved otherwise...To some degree at least. The numbers might be down compared to previous years (and might still be down even after this whole debacle) but the people that do make the numbers (with the exception of a few sour grapes) care way too much for this site to suddenly get Thanos Snapped out of existence. Passionate and driven fans of Sasuke still exist here and will keep coming here, so deleting this place where said fans can talk and interact...
All I can say is that like Sasuke it self, sometimes something grandiose happens that results in a new era...at least for now that comes in the form of the moderation team of this site...among other things perhaps? I'm just glad this thing is done.
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Post by dakohosu on Nov 24, 2023 14:27:39 GMT -5
In the past the mods rotated in and out with a recommendation from the community. This place is owned by blt but it was administered by members of the community who were there to keep topics in respective areas and sweep the place for bots. That’s it. This is different. A unilateral decision was made by Eclipse because she felt the community had no worth and the members didn’t deserve her powers. So instead of going the route the other mods did (bowing out), she decided to burn the thing down because she doesn’t respect any of you. As it is now she mentions only now she realizes that others care about this place. That is not a mod, that is a dictator. Now you want that person that does not respect you decide if you are worthy of being a mod in a place she finds no value. That decision is not Eclipse’s decision to make. There is no good will. Since when do you need permission from anyone to express your opinion on a television show on a public forum? Let me reiterate once again, I don’t care about the way we got here. All I care about is that we got to the point where SMF is staying. Whether it is run by a “dictator” or not is besides the point to me. There is literally zero point in harping on about what went on behind the scenes, and as I mentioned in my last post, I don’t care about the sentiment directed towards me by an online entity. Whether I’m respected or not by said individual, doesn’t mean anything to me, SMF is not closing so it’s fine with ne. I would like to be a mod and I’d like to think I’ve done enough on this forum such that many could vouch for me to be a suitable voice of reason which is aligned with how a mod should be. If this gets overruled by a single entity in spite of that, then that’s another discussion to be had, and if I don’t end up becoming a mod I’m not going to be crying behind my laptop about it. But again; I don’t care about the whole story behind the decision making, who makes the decisions etc as long as the overarching action made in the end is aligned with what the rest of us want from the future of SMF. What happens in the past needs to be left in the past, nothing we can do about that. Instead focussing on consolidating a bright future for the forum.
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arsenette
Administrator
Rambling Rican
Posts: 16,617
Staff Member
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Post by arsenette on Nov 24, 2023 14:42:22 GMT -5
You wouldn’t have SMF if it wasn’t that I threatened to have Eclipse removed by proboards by asserting a power she doesn’t have. You wouldn’t have a board to post on if we longtime posters took action to remove the problem. You should be concerned as to how we got here.
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